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**Glen Chamberlain** · 5 December 2003, 22:05

Maybe a way to see if the heads are similar like you have suggested the MAYbe is to compare head gaskets? Keep your old mans one and iam sure somone on the board can supply an S2 one?

Your right with VOLVO not producing much of there own stuff, i belive all the units in the 400 series (440 460 + 480) were Renaults units which originally started their life designed as a DIESELS!

I wouldn't be supprised if VOLVO had Produced their own 5 pot engine for the 850 (with help from Audi of course) because the 850 was a revoluntionary brakethrough for VOLVO in car manufacturing designed to carry or bring (which ever you prefere) VOLVO in to the next decade.

The first VOLVO 5 pot was launced in Aug 91 ( i think?) on the release of the "K" plate and is still being produced today! Making it viable to design and manufacture their own units. The design of that enngine has now had 12 or so years to pay and i belive it will have done just that, especially with the super blown unit in the T5, T5R and R cars! These or this should i say, was the engine which made VOLVO in the 90's!

(sorry guys, i hold a bit of a soft spot for the swedish tank as well as the audi's too!)

**Lee** · 5 December 2003, 22:39

Glen, thank you for pointing out the obvious!!

Why didn't I think of getting some head gaskets! I am employed to "think outside the box" as I do new product development so that should have been obvious to me! Doh! It has been a long week!

I am not taking my dads head off but could always take and Audi gasket to a Volvo stealership and compare one at the parts counter. I have got to collect his new bits anway. Man! Volvo parts are dirt cheap these days! A new clutch kit for him was about 160 quid for cover plate and clutch...not bad for a 250 horse engine! Volvo prices used to be stupid but was told by the parts guy that they had to drop prices to compete with people like Euro Car Parts and German&Swedish. How refreshing! Wouldn't buy one though: flat torque profile from 2k to 5k is nice but the chassis is crap and rods and gearbox are weak and it redlines at only 6k!

Cheers mate!

**A6 AVANT** · 5 December 2003, 23:02

Can't think of any more 5 pots myself but fiat do fit the 5 in the Marea as well as the coupe. If any of you guys know someone with one and they want a timing belt done.... REFUSE!!!! Book gives about 15 hours!! Engine out! Quite funny actually the book reads..... 1.jack up car 2. remove ancillaries 3.remove engine!!!! Or something just as stupid. They make it sound so easy!! lol.
Wish you had mentioned the head gasket a few weeks ago, I just did the gasket on Beeties car!
I am surprised Ford haven't used Volvo's engine as they own them!

Lee, do you really need to take a gasket to Volvo? Can't you get a faxed copy from both dealers to compare? I know it's not the same as the physical object but you should be able to compare.

Chris.

**Pisobiker** · 6 December 2003, 01:03

I'm pretty sure Fiat did develop it's own 5 cylinder itself. It was fitted both NA and turbocharged at least on CoupÃ© and K (Lancia K). Than was also made a 2.4 TD IL5 for the K and Lybra.

Marco

**Josh-stateside** · 6 December 2003, 01:43

Volkswagens come with a 5 cylinder in the Golf IVS and jetta Ivs

Don't forget Ford owns volvo too... I am sure the Fix Or Repair Daily parts are making there ways into the volvos.

Cheers
Josh

**Vagsport** · 6 December 2003, 03:49

The 5 pot engine in the Volvo 850 series WAS an Audi design, the 850 TDI was an Audi engine complete, lifted straight from the early A6 ( I did a cambelt and tensioner change on one last year, using VAG parts!!)

Siena

**Lee** · 6 December 2003, 04:09

The VW 5 cylinder engine is a V5 isn't it? 2 cylinders on one bank and 3 on the other I think.

I agree with you about Volvos. Quality isn't that good these days and certainly isn't that robust anmore. My dad had a piece of trim come off at 145 mph cos it was so flimsy. It's the plastic piece that runs along the roofline from the windscreen to trunk just peeled back. Thats naff!!

Didn't know about the straight 5 engine used in different Fiat models though. Maybe it is their own work. The volvo head is really big so I wonder is it is better. The Audi 4V unit is a really a nice design though. Can't wait for Vagsports 5 valve head though. If the price is right! Siena, have you ever thought about using the valve angles, ports, and combustoin camber geometries from a 1.8T engine as a pattern for the 5 valve head? Repeat the geometry of each chamber and associted 5 times and realign the oil and waterways. You will be talking custom cams, manifolds etc but at least the important geometries and material thicknesses can all be copied. The design is done for you! I know Paul at VAGPARTS had some old knackered 1.8T heads. That could be your templates readily available!!

**Lee** · 6 December 2003, 04:12

Originally posted by Vagsport
The 5 pot engine in the Volvo 850 series WAS an Audi design, the 850 TDI was an Audi engine complete, lifted straight from the early A6 ( I did a cambelt and tensioner change on one last year, using VAG parts!!)

Siena

Do you know how far the commonality extends? Blocks, cranks? Which Volvo engines are the same as the Audi ones?

**Vagsport** · 6 December 2003, 12:29

A 1.8T head IS being used initially, welding an extra cylinder to the 4 zyl head. As far as I know, it involves a lot of machining, but it will not be run. It will be used as a template to make a complete new casting, after the oil / waterways have been suitably alligned.

The Volvo engines are based on an Audi design, so are not compatible wit VAG units. The only similar engine is the 850 2.5 TDI, which has the same codes as the Audi unit. A point to remember, for those still running K Jet on 10V turbo and N/A engines, you can adapt the EFI loom and ECU from a Volvo 5 zyl 10V / 10V turbo, I dabbled with it when my type 85 Coupe q was standard, and it worked a treat. Didn't take any power figures at the time, but the car was certainly quicker. Trouble is it was also a lot smoother and lost most of the gruff 5 zyl "warble" which most of us find so addictive.

A plus point for those who want to go down the EFI route, the Volvo parts are very cheap used, I paid Â£75 for the loom, ECU and robbed the engine of all required sensors. The only part ot the conversion that cost besides the parts was the modifications done to the original inlet manifold, allowing the Volvo injectors to be fitted. This cost another Â£60, but was well worth the money spent.

Siena

**porkkis** · 6 December 2003, 22:52

As far as I know the Fiat group 5 cyl engine is their own design. As Marco said it's used in many models, Coupe, Kappa, Stilo Abarth, Bravo HGT and so on. 2.0 and 2.4 litre versions are (or were) available. These things have a neat plastic timing belt tensioner... my pal's Kappa got 20 new valves because of that

And yes, the Volvo engines are designed in cooperation with Audi. Petrol models were their "own" from the begining, but diesels were Audi units till a year or two ago when they finally did their own.

Merc had a 5 cyl diesel also (250D I think).

**Lee** · 7 December 2003, 03:13

Nice info. Thanks. Plastic tensioners don't sound too clever!

**Graham** · 7 December 2003, 10:47

The Volvo 5 pot is virtually the same as our as my mates dad has one, and its a 2.5 tdi, the block and head are the same length etc, next time i see him i'll get my tape measure our and worry him

Graham

**Vagsport** · 7 December 2003, 18:44

Yeah, the 2.5 TDI's ARE the same as the Audi units, but the petrol units ARE not.

Siena

**audiman** · 7 December 2003, 20:46

VW's engine is a bit of a weird one. Its a single head design, the cylinders are slightly offset. Its a 12 degree V. But the top of the block is flat :wacked:

my old man has got a V5 Passat, its too new and he wont let me pull it apart to see what its really like.

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