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Unread 24-05-12, 04:20 PM   #16
UrS4boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftin jo View Post
The fact that you have to ask what the firing order is suggests to me you should forget about tuning or even working on your engine in any way, period .
Finally somebody else is thinking the same as me. dspl1236 has become (or always was) a complete time waster because he will NOT grasp the most basic information when it is thrown in his face, i.e. the correct firing order. He still keeps asking, like timing order is an arbitrary thing and some people use one firing order while others are using another.

These engines, their crankshafts, their cam shafts, have all been designed to work with one and only one firing order, 1-2-4-5-3. Period, no substitutes.

Other 5 cylinder engines, e.g. some Volvos, some GMC engines *might* be different than that but if they are, their crankshafts and camshafts have been designed accordingly. dspl1236, if you are listening, please, please get this through your thick noggin'.

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Unread 24-05-12, 06:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrS4boy View Post
Finally somebody else is thinking the same as me. dspl1236 has become (or always was) a complete time waster because he will NOT grasp the most basic information when it is thrown in his face, i.e. the correct firing order. He still keeps asking, like timing order is an arbitrary thing and some people use one firing order while others are using another.

These engines, their crankshafts, their cam shafts, have all been designed to work with one and only one firing order, 1-2-4-5-3. Period, no substitutes.

Other 5 cylinder engines, e.g. some Volvos, some GMC engines *might* be different than that but if they are, their crankshafts and camshafts have been designed accordingly. dspl1236, if you are listening, please, please get this through your thick noggin'.

Harsh, but rightly so. There's no helping some people.
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Unread 24-05-12, 06:25 PM   #18
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i have had 20vt's for years. installed several standalone systems. 1.8t, i5 20v, v8, vr6....dude i get it. firing order it doesnt change...but configuration from system to system does.


I came into this DTA thread to see if one of these guys follows what DTA says or they tossed the instructions and went with the real firing order

If you have no experience with DTAFast systems then do not answer. there might be something in the firmware..... I dont know....hence why I am asking. I only posted in here since you brought up the bogus firing order DTA says
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Last edited by dspl1236; 24-05-12 at 06:46 PM.
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Unread 24-05-12, 07:09 PM   #19
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Dude take it off the forum no matter what ecu you use the physical firing order is 1 2453
It can transposed on aftermarket to say 45312 but the order for the Audi I5 is the same
It's quite offensive for dta to give their opinion of a firing order set in stone by Audi
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Unread 24-05-12, 07:10 PM   #20
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I almost hate to say this, being a Motronic fan, but IF you had to go stand alone, I think you would have much better Audi 20VT support (here and elsewhere) with VEMS. This includes but is not limited to Marc S. at EFI Express plus many others here and on other US Audi forums.

Seems like the guidance you are(n't) getting from DTA is causing you some of your problems.

Good luck. I'm done. (I know *that* will make you happy)
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Unread 26-05-12, 12:32 AM   #21
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This is just a small misunderstanding about firing order vs. coil output nr I quess.
If running a DTA in batch mode it's running as half a V10 and the setup in the manual looks very strange at first, but is correct
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Unread 27-05-12, 04:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audi_CQ View Post
This is just a small misunderstanding about firing order vs. coil output nr I quess.
If running a DTA in batch mode it's running as half a V10 and the setup in the manual looks very strange at first, but is correct
Thank you

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Unread 28-05-12, 12:35 PM   #23
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dspl1236 seems to be getting a lot of stick for something he is actually right about, like Audi CQ said the DTA manual looks very strange suggesting to wire the coils in this order...

1 5 2 3 4

This is obviously not the firing order of the engine but it is the order the coils need to fire when running a I5 in batch fire, aka wasted spark.

"Oh dear" i said wasted spark and inline 5 in the same sentence again
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Unread 28-05-12, 09:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnutz2 View Post
dspl1236 seems to be getting a lot of stick for something he is actually right about, like Audi CQ said the DTA manual looks very strange suggesting to wire the coils in this order...

1 5 2 3 4

This is obviously not the firing order of the engine but it is the order the coils need to fire when running a I5 in batch fire, aka wasted spark.

"Oh dear" i said wasted spark and inline 5 in the same sentence again
1 5 2 3 4
This is running like a half a V10 so count only every other cyl and you get 1 2 4 5 3
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Unread 29-05-12, 09:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audi_CQ View Post
1 5 2 3 4
This is running like a half a V10 so count only every other cyl and you get 1 2 4 5 3
The Audi V10 has two five cylinder banks, e.g. Left = 1,2,3,4,5 and Right 6,7,8,9,10 (correct me IF I am wrong).

The firing order is 1-6-5-10-2-7-3-8-4-9

Every second cylinder of the *V10* is 1-5-2-3-4.

I don't see how you can take this yet another level of "skipping".
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Unread 29-05-12, 10:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrS4boy View Post
The Audi V10 has two five cylinder banks, e.g. Left = 1,2,3,4,5 and Right 6,7,8,9,10 (correct me IF I am wrong).

The firing order is 1-6-5-10-2-7-3-8-4-9

Every second cylinder of the *V10* is 1-5-2-3-4.

I don't see how you can take this yet another level of "skipping".
Did I say it was half an Audi V10? You must imagine a V10 made up of to I5's
Or put it this way: If running half an Audi V10 as a I5 it would have 15234 as firing order
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Unread 29-05-12, 11:11 PM   #27
UrS4boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audi_CQ View Post
Did I say it was half an Audi V10? You must imagine a V10 made up of to I5's
Or put it this way: If running half an Audi V10 as a I5 it would have 15234 as firing order
All that says is the an Audi V10, made up of two I-5 banks, does NOT NOT NOT have the same firing order for its left (1-2-3-4-5) cylinder bank as the 20VT 3B, AAN, ABY or ADU.
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Unread 30-05-12, 02:37 PM   #28
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Right, a v10 fires every 72deg regardless of firing order.

Us DTA lads set the ecu to 10 cylinder in the engine settings, now the ecu triggers the coils every 72deg.

Our I5 engines fire every 144deg, but this means they hit TDC every 72deg, and what happent inbetween every compression stroke on a 4 stroke engine?

An exhaust stroke.

If you follow the full engine cycle, this happens

0deg = No1 cyl = Compression = Real event
72deg = No5 cyl = Exhaust = wasted
144deg = No2 cyl = Compression = Real event
216deg = No3 cyl = Exhaust = wasted
288deg = No4 cyl = Compression = real event

At this point no cam is triggerd so it resets to zero

0deg = No1 cyl = Exhaust = Wasted
72deg = No5 cyl = Compression = Real event
144deg = No2 cyl = Exhaust = Wasted
216deg = No3 cyl = Compression = Real event
288deg = No4 cyl = Exhaust = wasted

I cant think of any simpler way of putting it
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Unread 30-05-12, 02:43 PM   #29
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Now why didn't someone post that earlier so on 1st cycle 1, skip 5, 2, skip 3, 4, skip 1, 5, skip 2, 3 giving 12453 firing order
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Unread 30-05-12, 03:10 PM   #30
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Okay, 5 x 144 = 720 and 10 x 72 = 720. What I wasn't factoring was every second coil firing was a wasted spark. Seems like a "work around" rather than the more direct approach that the OE ECU or even VEMS uses with spark only every 144 degrees.

Thanks
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