Wanted: Volunteers to test product to aid front strut-mounts.

[UrsNewb]

Lago I just saw this and will be doing a refresh of my suspension once I get all the bits together. Let me know what is needed and I will take a set

[Lago Blue]

End of postal subsidy for Strut-Stops looms...

As I approach a healthy number of early adopters, I need to scale back the current incentives. Towards that end I will cease paying postage to testor / customer locations after the end of the year. For the time being the half-cost testing price offer continues.

[Lago Blue]

newsh ,

Back when stitches where pixels (I hear ya on the 50 years BTW, see photo below) my dad had a huge one that I could fit my brother into, boy it was well made!. But having no frame, it was murder to carry a heavy load with. On the other hand, this particular type (a framed rucksack), has some characteristics worth emulating for our purposes here for instance, the prevention of point-load concentration:

When carrying their considerable vertical load as top-mounts must do, instead of the fragile, always worsening stock condition we are familiar with, we may employ some internal reinforcing structure to best keep new mounts near to new. Strut-Stops provide a more specific fixed carry-position and ensure a broad enough load path is maintained to spread the energy being transferred widely enough, that precludes mount damage. The materials and integrity of that otherwise stock chassis connection (in our case the mount's interior bonded interfaces, original exterior height and the bearing) all remain quiet, resilient and well connected, now kept comfortably within a slightly reduced operating range which keeps them fully capable and undamaged over time.

Mr. Without (see photo below) gets beat-up by his sharp-edged sloppy pack-load, while Mr. With is unfazed carrying similar over the same journey only because that same load has not been allowed to become concentrated.

Left stock, without reinforcement, the mount's rubber exterior is made maleable in a kind of cold flow process (even though they get quite hot in use) which deflates its' ability to effectively suspend the body over the strut. That familiar mount flattening and weakening process ordinarily reduces the mounts' top area available to transfer energy usefully, down to just slightly more than that equal to the hole diameter in the top of the fender turret itself; directly above. Hence, that concentration is why they feel bad and sound poor when worn. The structure provided by Strut-Stops prevents that damage; and maintains both the mount's internal integrity and its' entire upper as new characteristic exterior shape, height and most importantly effective volume, keeping them intact and available for a more broadly spread out energy transfer; quite a bit longer.

Bergans stitched label small.png

[newsh]

I had one of those rucksacks when I was in the Scouts (50 years ago? )

[Lago Blue]

"Strut-Stops" Pass the Two Year Point in Independent Testing...

Starting in the Fall of 2016 there are now tester / customers and forum members participating in:

England
Germany
Greece
Ireland
Scotland &
the USA.

Two pretty uneventful years into independent testing this month, no mount failures, no returns, no refunds requested. Just silent, forgotten and forgiving top-mounts; being kept that way.

Photo below is of the brand label attached to all "Bergans Original" back-packs. Bergans, for those unfamiliar, made external framed packs popular back when most where just unstructured sacs. Label depicts a tuckered "Mr. Without" and a relaxed "Mr. With" likely after a good hike up before the ski down. It reminds me of Strut-Stops in that "Mr. Without" might say, "Oh, I've got to replace my top-mounts again, already! To which "Mr. With" replies "Well, why not make that perhaps the last time you need do that?"

Bergans Original bacpack label.png

[jp_paul]

Time for me to break cover - I'm one of the UK based testers and I'm (as of last weekend) now running Arm and Strut Stops up front on my CQ20v as referred to in LagoBlue's post earlier today. The quotes from today and on some of the earlier posts are from my emails to him.

I really can't recommend strongly enough that you get hold of some of these items pronto and get them fitted when you're next doing your routine mount and/or wishbone bush renewal. Trust me; you won't be disappointed. Together, the 2 mods have transformed the way my car handles wit the added benefit that I won't be putting new strut mounts on in the foreseeable future. The Arm-stops combined with Strut-stops have to be driven to be believed - such a simple yet highly effective solution to an age old problem that we all suffer from, some more silently than others. I plan to do the same on the rear to in due course...

I propose that we combine some shipping to limit UPS's transatlantic profits. If anybody's interested in getting your order shipped to me and for me to distribute within the UK, it'll make these items so cheap, you'd be barmy not to get some for yourself. Provided of course that LagoBlue is happy to make enough to satisfy demand and your manufacturing/delivery time requirements. Feel free to PM me and/or LagoBlue if you interested.

[Lago Blue]

In Praise of Aids for late OEM Boge type (a.k.a. "Isolastic" or "Silent-Block") A-arm Bushings and Top-Mounts.

Recent plaudit for the two types of "Stops" mods I offer, used in combination. Forum member comment upon having driven with the slightly delayed (4 months later) installation of "Arm-Stops" after already having driven with just "Strut-Stops" alone previously:

"...I’ve been so blown away by how she now rolls along and turns,..."

"Stops" mods - cheap simple effective preventative maintenance; with complimentary benefits.

[Greg_S]

Hi Greg,

Re-sent via e-mail.

Thank you. I'll start to refit this week

[Lago Blue]

Hi Greg,

Re-sent via e-mail.

[Greg_S]

Lago Blue can you point me to the fitting instructions for these. I couldn't remember where it was this evening. Thanks

[Lago Blue]

Just sent a shipment of audi widgets to the US this week, ahead of the deadline (July 01) after which new tariffs on Canadian aluminum and steel take effect. Don't know if this is just on raw materials yet, hope so. Meanwhile news about the ongoing re-jigging of NAFTA talks may also mean annoying increased costs on auto parts going there. May the gods bless America.

I think my current offer is pretty generous and I won't cover the above if any should arise (just out of general principal), in fact if and as the product gains acceptance I will reduce the global discount, most likely in stages, to zero.

[Lago Blue]

Jogi,

Yes (from the external ad linked to in post #1 above), since July 2016, for the interim still reduced to 30 bucks Cdn / pair and I pay postage, both for a little while longer yet (see post #9 above).

The ad photo (have you seen it?) shows product installed inside the mount cavity, so If you're thinking the rear of your B2Q, I'm thinking it must be set up just like a B3Q sedan where front and rear strut-mounts are the same part; so yes.

I think what rear-mounted "Strut-Stops" alone contribute (beyond preserving the mounts) is, you should notice improved straight-line stability and the back end will feel like it more precisely trails the front, as:

a) The required new OEM top-mounts necessary (now travel restrained and reinforced with this kit) will of course be slightly stiffer than stock ones un-aided; and their response rate only increases to the stop point, but also;
b) The "Stops" will, by limiting internal mount vertical travel, cause the springs and dampers to be activated sooner than stock, reducing roll slightly and hastening initial steering response right when you begin to turn the wheel; &
c) Similarly, this change should also be felt in improved cross-wind resistance.

Further, I think the reason that this small change to the back end is felt at the front, is that it is far from the car's forward biased C of G, so it has some leverage; and hence a tangible positive effect on the steering stability and response.

[jogi730]

So, these are available now. What is the cost please?
Do they fit the rear strut mounts also and should/can they be used there?

[Lago Blue]

Looking back at top-mount failures and their replacement cost through the simple lens of economics...

Theory:

I'll begin by humbly offering a simple definition: economics = money, divided by time.

Consider that one (theoretical) contributing factor why most mounts fail early, is that we as a group; keep buying mostly; poor ones. We encourage the makers in their mediocrity. They just make even more, still poor ones, but now even more cheaply due to our on-going en masse encouragement. In this race to the bottom, most mounts don't get a lot better (your mount can't be a "best seller" if it's not failing often!). If most of us bought only the best performing one, some of the poorer ones might be made better, but we are not as a group that well organized.

Individually we are often not thoughtful enough to be invulnerable to the tyranny of the lowest price. Most makers recognize this and that low price-point built items with volume sales are easier to achieve profits with, than fewer sales of technically excellent product not requiring replacement. Every day, boat-loads of entirely waste-of-time top-mounts beckon, many are superceeded items banished to E-bay, often described as "best sellers", some under-identified, maybe mis-labelled or even packaged as "OEM", perhaps including your next pair? Until you choose, it's just theory though.

Practice:

Many missed out on the original Mount-Savers because they were judged to be "too expensive". Perhaps they weren't? Simple idea, take the technically best mount and keep it as near to new as possible; long-term. I'm sorry but most likely your current un-aided even true OEM mounts are "toast", or fated to be very shortly. Please dispose of your used parts (again) in an environmentally responsible manner. In the future, as an alternative you may like to experience how to not have to need to replace them nearly so often; if at all. There's a practice you could live without repeating.

This month I've got eleven years on my original and NLA Mount-Savers, the mounts are still fine thank you.

These newer "Strut-Stops", while not identical to Mount-Savers are cheap and effective so far (two years now since introduced). One tester (former Mount-Saver user) has said they're the next logical evolution of the idea. Even if they only last half as long as Mount-Savers; and despite that they're for only the most expensive OEMs you're likely to find, the payback on your time and principal spent; would still be favourable.

Not to mention, they'll pass the "TUV" (or your local version of it) repeatedly, factory fit and visually undetectable, the improved handling, the avoided costs in re-alignments, the better control of tire wear and the enduring comfort and quiet of new stock mounts; kept that way.

Lastly, consider that even if you do your own work and don't put a value on your own time; as soon as you've avoided one forced mount replacement, you likely got all your extra money back. Every day that goes by without further collapse taking place, mine are still getting cheaper. A most economical mount? May be, that's just theory mind you, but at least in practice so far, they've proven pretty practical.

[Lago Blue]

Hello F/U,
Strut-mount aid kits are available. PM sent.