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  • VAG 60-2 wheel

    Hi guys,

    In my search for a neat 60-2 solution on my engine I've found a pretty nice one that I want to share with you guys. First I was looking into the option to machine a 60-2 wheel on the harmonic damper. However It's not the neatest/nicest. Another option is a 60-2 window ring thats used on the newer flywheels to mount on the custom fywheel. These can be used with stock sensors. Then I read on a VW forum that the new 2009 Lupo's use a 60-2 wheel on the cranckseal. I took the plunge and ordered one (€120,00). It's basicly the rear cranck seal made of moulded plastic. This incorporates a hall sensor. A steel 60-2 wheel is also included. This wheel is pressed on the cranckshaft. And thats it. I've test fitted it on an old 10V lump, and it's perfect. All the holes lineup nicely from what i could see. The only downside is that there needs to be a hole drilled in the engine block. This can be a very small hole approx 3/4 mm to feed the wire through. I'll be using this setup with VEMS. I'll make some detailed (better quality) pictures later. When I got some more time. I'll also put down the exact part numbers.
    The pictures! enjoy.

    Jeffry
    Attached Files
    RS2 Black - stock 315 HP
    RS2 RS blau - stock 315 HP
    Sport Quattro - 1005 HP
    High Octane website

  • #2
    Cool - thats a fluke it them from a Lupo !

    I've seen some sort of 60-2 setup attached an Audi flywheel somewhere before - but suspect not I5 as you say - probably something newer.

    But then with VEMS - I thought it was plug and play with Audi I5 flywheel - or maybe you are running some exotic lightweight one without crank position pin ?
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

    Comment


    • #3
      iirc the newer audi's use a 60-2 large ring mounted on the flywheel.
      This replaces the 2 sensors mounted on the gearbox. To use the oem audi triggers with VEMS, you need to play a little pit with the 2 signals. In the beginning there was some trouble running VEMS with the stock audi sensors. Thats all sorted nowdays. But still I wanted to run a 60-2 wheel. SO this is e nice and clean solution. The proof will be in the pudding.
      RS2 Black - stock 315 HP
      RS2 RS blau - stock 315 HP
      Sport Quattro - 1005 HP
      High Octane website

      Comment


      • #4
        .

        Which standard sensors will this replace?

        Advantages of the 60-2 wheel?
        Carlos.

        On the look out for less bits for my s2 saloon project. Now supporting myself by shooting for my food. www.airgunforum.co.uk

        Comment


        • #5
          both the sensors on the flywheel. Mind, this will not be a replacement for motronic but an alternative when using VEMS (or another programmable ecu)
          RS2 Black - stock 315 HP
          RS2 RS blau - stock 315 HP
          Sport Quattro - 1005 HP
          High Octane website

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Flat on my back View Post
            Which standard sensors will this replace?

            Advantages of the 60-2 wheel?
            One sensor on a 60-2 wheel replaces the two sensors for crank position (G4) and crank speed (G28).

            The 60-2 wheel is a common thing in the aftermarket wheel. The number 60 comes from fact that dividing it by number of cylinders must give a whole number - so a 60 tooth wheel works on 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 & 12 cylinders. Other missing tooth wheels are optimised for 4-cyl engines. The missing tooth (or teeth) is used by the same sensor to determine the reference position of the crank - which I assume is programmable on the aftermarket ECU.
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment


            • #7
              Last time I looked Paul, 60 didn't divide by 8 and leave a whole number!
              Martin Cutting

              aka Keeper of "The Teutonic Kitten"

              It's not better than sex, but it runs it a close second.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry - you are right - my lazy old / stupid head... Its the number of teeth times two which must be divisible by number of cyls into a whole number. 120 divided by 8 = 15. That's better...

                And some independent proof - plus lots more info on these kinds of wheels --- http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/wheel.htm
                Paul Nugent
                Webmaster http://S2central.net
                Administrator http://S2forum.com

                1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                Comment


                • #9
                  So.

                  Are there real performance benefits to this...more accuracy in the firing cycle?

                  Ant other engines using these wheels that peeps no of...from mass car makers of course.

                  Good find.
                  Carlos.

                  On the look out for less bits for my s2 saloon project. Now supporting myself by shooting for my food. www.airgunforum.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No real benefits other than one convenient crankwheel system that works well in the aftermarket and is easy programmable for a wide variety of engine applications. You will see it used sometimes on mass cars - somebody recently found a VW Lupo application that looked like this.
                    Paul Nugent
                    Webmaster http://S2central.net
                    Administrator http://S2forum.com

                    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      vw polo 2003 with 1,0 4syl engine may have this too... NR 030 103 170: the 60-2 seal

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        @ Caterpillar: I think you are right, seen this before on some small VAG engine.

                        The usage of a 60 minus 2 trigger makes it possible for the ECU to count back from a fixed reference to retard ignition or modify the injection timing.
                        Mounting the 60-2 on the front of the harmonic damper is not a good option because of the minor axial/radial movement of the rubber.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Last night I've mounted the sensor to the engine. It fits but one bolt hole does not line up. I don't see any harm in that. Aside from that it fits like a glove, besides drilling a hole in the engine block for the wire, wich is something I don't do every day
                          Pin #14 is right at the center of the hallsensor at TDC.
                          The pics:
                          Attached Files
                          RS2 Black - stock 315 HP
                          RS2 RS blau - stock 315 HP
                          Sport Quattro - 1005 HP
                          High Octane website

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jeffer View Post
                            Last night I've mounted the sensor to the engine. It fits but one bolt hole does not line up. I don't see any harm in that. Aside from that it fits like a glove, besides drilling a hole in the engine block for the wire, wich is something I don't do every day
                            Pin #14 is right at the center of the hallsensor at TDC.
                            The pics:
                            Good idea.

                            I've been drilling 14 holes in my flywheel so i can use the standard (VR) sensor allready mounted on the block.



                            My DTA ecu needs a minimum of 12 teeth to work correctly, so 15 is the closest.
                            The ONLY S2 Golf!
                            http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19402
                            10.42@138mph
                            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0wnkkOfFpXg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              also a nice solution. Where do you get your tdc reference from?
                              RS2 Black - stock 315 HP
                              RS2 RS blau - stock 315 HP
                              Sport Quattro - 1005 HP
                              High Octane website

                              Comment

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