RS2 Overboost and surging issue

[d_anev]

Dmitry still fighting with us

Guys,
Believe me, he never lies, makes tricks and enters into a nasty dispute or something like that. He always helps, even when he is angry. Or if he does not want to help, you better wait for aliens!!

If you read carefully, without emotion and without bias, he clearly hinted, that after changing the exhaust manifold, the catalysts and the downpipe the back pressure has decreased, i.e., the turbine has become more "efficient".
As a result WGDC is more than needed and current N75 DC will "push" turbo to increase boost pressure over the limit (max boost pressure limit) and safety procedure in software will cut the N75 for a while, then pressure will rise again, then cut again and again and again.
Result: you have yours cases!!!

What is the conclusion - the N75DC map must be changed i.e. values must be decreased to have stable pressure in intake manifold (or increase max boost pressure - it’s dangerous). The stock or 40$ chips has less values in WGDC map and boost pressure map than PRJ Stage 1 and this hardware mods failed to push the turbine to increase the pressure above the limit.

This fact gives you information and proof that PRJ Stage 1 is tuned to get the most out (the best) of your engine's stock configuration. And a little improvement in the hardware configuration unleashes values above the limit. And stock settings and $40 chips after hardware mods are still below the limits or this “safety” limits are set to be no longer safety .
You can make the conclusions about the quality of the settings by yourself. (For stock soft, this was the requirement, not a mistake or bad quality).

So much emotion without a desire to understand the writing.

If you want to discuss and dispute with Dmitry for prjmod, the example is not appropriate.

Find something meaningful and then "fight" with him if you can this will be fun

I feel that some guys burn with a desire to argue

Dmitry, why you act in this way on people still amazes me you're trying to help and help real, but instead of gratitude, you get shi***** on your head (figuratively) and sorry for this words

[kj6304]

Can file this under Alice in wonderland for the ignorant. Plenty abound and one every five minutes.

[prj]

I'm not the expert, you are. NevertheIess, I've never had an overboost problem with my stock chips or the stage 1+ ones I bought off ebay for like $40 and there were plenty of mechanical nuances from the factory setup, including exhaust variations. Based on this experience and knowing that there are more closed-loop programs that are more sensitive to physical/mechanical differences, I'm arguing that your tunes likely fall into this category. Now I'm sure that there are advantages to this approach, including performance since the tune can be optimized for a specific application. As well, there are obvious commercial advantages. The downside is having to deal with you again or just cutting their losses and moving on.

Those Stage 1+ chips you bought have all failsafes turned off. That's why it works, because the ECU does not cut boost or fuel no matter what happens.
If that's how you want to roll, that's your choice. Not how correct tuning should be done and not how I do things. Maybe that's why I never blew up anyone's engine with my Stage 1 software even though hundreds of copies have been sold.

As for commercial viability or dealing with me - dude it's ****ing 2018. I don't even tune cars on this ECU, I fit standalones to them.
I probably do 1 or 2 a year at this point because they are so rare.

What's your point besides bitching about things you don't understand and making yourself look dumb in the process?
None of the things you have written so far have anything to do with how ECU's work or what's going on in this case. Do yourself a favor and at least read m232.org.
There's no need to assume things and be wrong about them, when there's documentation out there about how things actually work.

[dr.strangelove]

Oh really?

As is clearly evidenced by these two cars, that's exactly what happens when you change exhaust on stock tune. The reason they actually go into limpmode, is because unlike most out there my first step on a Stage 1 tune is not 0xFF-ing all safety.

As I said. Prjmod is open, make better tunes (if you can), make them available for free, I don't care.

Tbh I don't think you even have the slightest clue what setpoint, actual and feed-forward PID control is nor have you ever tuned a car.
That's fine, but that's why I said you might want to *think* about being quiet when the subject matter is over your head and you have nothing constructive to add.

Attacking me personally will get you absolutely nowhere apart from looking stupid, as IDGAF.

I'm not the expert, you are. NevertheIess, I've never had an overboost problem with my stock chips or the stage 1+ ones I bought off ebay for like $40 and there were plenty of mechanical nuances from the factory setup, including exhaust variations. Based on this experience and knowing that there are more closed-loop programs that are more sensitive to physical/mechanical differences, I'm arguing that your tunes likely fall into this category. Now I'm sure that there are advantages to this approach, including performance since the tune can be optimized for a specific application. As well, there are obvious commercial advantages. The downside is having to deal with you again or just cutting their losses and moving on.

[prj]

Well stock tunes don't boost beyond their set points when you change the exhaust. Just a more open tune?

Oh really?

As is clearly evidenced by these two cars, that's exactly what happens when you change exhaust on stock tune. The reason they actually go into limpmode, is because unlike most out there my first step on a Stage 1 tune is not 0xFF-ing all safety.

As I said. Prjmod is open, make better tunes (if you can), make them available for free, I don't care.

Tbh I don't think you even have the slightest clue what setpoint, actual and feed-forward PID control is nor have you ever tuned a car.
That's fine, but that's why I said you might want to *think* about being quiet when the subject matter is over your head and you have nothing constructive to add.

Attacking me personally will get you absolutely nowhere apart from looking stupid, as IDGAF.

[dr.strangelove]

MAF and VE have actually nothing to do with this. It's simply reduced backpressure on the wastegate thus making the WGDC pre-control map that is meant for the stock exhaust inadequate with the tuned exhaust. On the RS2 most likely drilling out the cap and winding the screw back a couple turns will solve the overboosting issue completely.

Well stock tunes don't boost beyond their set points when you change the exhaust. Just a more open tune?

As for you - It's wise to know what you are talking about before opening one's mouth and looking very silly indeed.

As for me, I'll open my mouth whenever I want thank you. If people waited until they knew it all no one would say anything and discussion would cease.

[prj]

Im no tuning expert or nuffin but this seems like a good reason to keep the maf in the tuning equation. That is unless you wanna retune everytime you do anything to your car that changes the ve. Now i know why this guy's so busy.

Both people who spoke in this thread do not have anything against me, because both had purchased Stage 1 software/chipsets for original cars. Indeed, both cars used and still use the MAF.
For both of them the Stage 1 software/chipset worked perfectly well when the car was stock and they were happy with it. Once they changed the hardware, the boost PID needed to be retuned, as simple as that.

MAF and VE have actually nothing to do with this. It's simply reduced backpressure on the wastegate thus making the WGDC pre-control map that is meant for the stock exhaust inadequate with the tuned exhaust. On the RS2 most likely drilling out the cap and winding the screw back a couple turns will solve the overboosting issue completely. On the RS4 it's more difficult - while the actuators are adjustable, doing it on the car is nearly impossible without taking the engine out. Actually it's quite easily possible to adjust the RS4 remotely, as the logging is much better on it. The RS2 Stage 1 chipset does not have a single prjmod patch in it. It's just a tune.

As for you - It's wise to know what you are talking about before opening one's mouth and looking very silly indeed.

Generally when you purchase a tune for a stock car that doesn't give you magical rights to free tuning once you change hardware.
But hey, you are free to take prjmod, and tune his or anyone elses car for if you like. I'd dare say my support is second to none, since I made thousands of hours of work available at no charge.

[dr.strangelove]

Im no tuning expert or nuffin but this seems like a good reason to keep the maf in the tuning equation. That is unless you wanna retune everytime you do anything to your car that changes the ve. Now i know why this guy's so busy.

[dr.strangelove]

Unfortunately it is how it is - most likely the boost PID needs to be adjusted after exhaust modifications.

Well hey, there's prjmod on m232.org if anyone feels like it. I don't anymore unfortunately.

there's some support for ya.

[prj]

Unfortunately it is how it is - most likely the boost PID needs to be adjusted after exhaust modifications.

Well hey, there's prjmod on m232.org if anyone feels like it. I don't anymore unfortunately.

[Canadian RS2]

I just realized I never closed the loop on this one. I ended up replacing my PRJ chips with the stock set and that fixed the surging issue. The tune was most likely mapped to the limits and removing the cats and installing the Supersprint turbo back exhaust was too much for the tune. It feels really good though with the free flowing exhaust and the smooth boost.

[orsum]

[UrS4boy]

Thanks Newsh.
I'll retest with pressure and see what happens. If it is being caused by the removal of the cats, would a Manual Boost Controller help limit the boost to 1.5 and stop the surging?

Dave did you see this rear diff lock post?

vaccum leak found!
which also means that a boost leak is also sorted

[orsum]

Hi did you solve the RS2 Overboost and surging issue.

[newsh]

You could use a boost controller (either mechanical or electronic) instead of the ECU to set max boost, but you would lose the ability of the ECU to reduce boost if there is a fault and therefore mask a problem which might damage the engine.
I wonder if you have a stronger than stock spring in the WG?
Try disconnecting the WGFV (N75) and report back on how much boost you get, it should be 0.4 Bar if the WG has a standard spring.