Converted 7A Heads

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  • S2central.net
    Retired OG Mod
    • Jul 2003
    • 16590
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #16
    Back to plan A here - mcandmar privately reminded me of the noise of that pesky gear arrangement and echoed the alignment issues that Corey mentioned - these give rise to ignition 'scatter' which is kak.

    @Doug - I'll have to follow up with you on pricing for a 7A to ABY head conversion - I'm reckoning on a new set of valves as I have no clue if they are sodium filled or not - is there a trick to finding out ?

    Also out of interest - is there any benefit from judicious material removal on the inlet or exhaust ports of the head during this conversion ?

    I've never compared the two heads side by side so dunno how similar they are... I'm reluctant to dive in with a Dremel myself without knowing how much is too much !

    Just trying to get a feel for this - I must dig up the old posts from MarkH when he wrote up his head work.

    Paul
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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    • audiman
      S2Forum Freak
      • Jul 2003
      • 4827
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #17
      There is a great way to test the valves. You get a hacksaw and a bucket of water. Cut the valves open and throw them in the bucket. If they fizz they have sodium in them (BTW thats the correct way of disposing of old valves that are filled with sodium)
      sigpic
      Tom C - www.rcmr.co.uk
      Audi UR Quattro
      Audi 100 C3 2.0 5 cyl 115ps
      Audi S2 - 07k engine project aiming for 800ps
      Audi B5 RS4 645ps 911nm

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      • S2central.net
        Retired OG Mod
        • Jul 2003
        • 16590
        • Country: Northern Ireland

        #18
        Neat idea - reminiscent of chemistry classes - only more fun. GUess I'll have to sacrifice a valve or two to find out. Thanks Tom !

        Any thoughts on head mod porting - is there much meat to remove, or just a finishing job to get them matched to the manifolds and the exhaust side nicely polished ?


        Paul
        Paul Nugent
        Webmaster http://S2central.net
        Administrator http://S2forum.com

        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

        Comment

        • audiman
          S2Forum Freak
          • Jul 2003
          • 4827
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #19
          Honestly im not sure, i have always left that to a machine shop.
          sigpic
          Tom C - www.rcmr.co.uk
          Audi UR Quattro
          Audi 100 C3 2.0 5 cyl 115ps
          Audi S2 - 07k engine project aiming for 800ps
          Audi B5 RS4 645ps 911nm

          Comment

          • 4WheelDrifter
            S2Forum Zealot
            • Oct 2004
            • 5773
            • Country: Devon

            #20
            Originally posted by S2central.net
            Neat idea - reminiscent of chemistry classes - only more fun. GUess I'll have to sacrifice a valve or two to find out. Thanks Tom !

            Any thoughts on head mod porting - is there much meat to remove, or just a finishing job to get them matched to the manifolds and the exhaust side nicely polished ?


            Paul
            I've had a go at porting my own cylinder head. I basically just smoothed the ports out a bit, and didn't go too mad with material removal. Some of the original casting is a little rough so some improvement can be made there. I also matched the inlet ports to the gasket and polished up the combustion chambers.

            I'm looking at making a template for the water manifold modification. I've also got a block of alloy to make a mount for the hall sender. Thanks to Jamo for the old hall sender. I've bought a new ABY pulley and have measured up ready for machining. I just need to get some time on the Bridgeport.

            I've also got both sets of vlaves here, 3B and 7A. Doug's suggestion was to weigh them to see if they are different. At a guess sodium filled valves should be lighter than standard valves.
            SS

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            • S2central.net
              Retired OG Mod
              • Jul 2003
              • 16590
              • Country: Northern Ireland

              #21
              @Stu - that gives me some confidence - I'm just looking at something mild on the head for now as you describe. Nothing too risky with regards material removal as you say... There are perhaps some decent gains to be had on a more extreme engine build, but for me with ~RS2 setup then things like air temperature will be more critical.

              What do you recommend in terms of dremel bits/attachments to safely remove material and get a nice finish on these alloy heads ?

              I'm gonna get the head flowbench tested first of all to establish a baseline, then see what gains are to be had (from any) of such mild tweaks. Actually, the same place might be able to flowbench a MAF and/or airbox or two... Going off topic here - sorry.

              Paul
              Paul Nugent
              Webmaster http://S2central.net
              Administrator http://S2forum.com

              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

              Comment

              • terrybullwon
                S2Forum Zealot
                • Mar 2006
                • 8782
                • Country: England

                #22
                Paul,

                I brought one of these from the US

                Porting kit

                I will pair it with a standard dremel and have a bash

                Cheers James
                Chef

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                • GazzaG60
                  S2Forum Freak
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 4133
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #23
                  take a look at cncheads.co.uk

                  look at the VW 16v to get an idea of what can be done.

                  Comment

                  • Jon441cc
                    S2Forum Fiend
                    • Dec 2005
                    • 2061
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #24
                    It truly is a labour of love when polishing a head with those things well worth it in the end though.
                    sigpic

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                    • 4WheelDrifter
                      S2Forum Zealot
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 5773
                      • Country: Devon

                      #25
                      Originally posted by S2central.net
                      @Stu - that gives me some confidence - I'm just looking at something mild on the head for now as you describe. Nothing too risky with regards material removal as you say... There are perhaps some decent gains to be had on a more extreme engine build, but for me with ~RS2 setup then things like air temperature will be more critical.

                      What do you recommend in terms of dremel bits/attachments to safely remove material and get a nice finish on these alloy heads ?

                      I'm gonna get the head flowbench tested first of all to establish a baseline, then see what gains are to be had (from any) of such mild tweaks. Actually, the same place might be able to flowbench a MAF and/or airbox or two... Going off topic here - sorry.

                      Paul
                      I'm aware that you can do more harm than good by taking material away from the wrong places. I think just before the exhaust ports meet was the most restrictive part, so it took a little metal away there creating more of a knife edge. Other than that I just smoothed out the rough casting with grinding stones, gradually used finer grades of cartridge rolls lubricating with WD-40, and finally polished up with a Scotch pad. I did all the ports at the same time at each stage to try to keep them all the same.
                      I'm not really looking for big gains from cylinder head porting, so I wasn't intending to do anything too radical.

                      I just used a porting kit from Merlin Abrasives with a normal electric drill. They also have a Ebay shop here for example.

                      It was a very time consuming job, although I was doing a little bit at a time. If I did another I could do it a lot quicker.
                      SS

                      Comment

                      • S2central.net
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 16590
                        • Country: Northern Ireland

                        #26
                        Hey thanks lads - this is good info - cheers for the tips and the linkies. I promise to record the progress of my brave attempts at cleaning up this head for my long awaited engine build project and share as much as I can.

                        Paul
                        Paul Nugent
                        Webmaster http://S2central.net
                        Administrator http://S2forum.com

                        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                        Comment

                        • S2central.net
                          Retired OG Mod
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 16590
                          • Country: Northern Ireland

                          #27
                          That company cncheads looks clued in - quite some investment they have made. I'm no 16V Golf expert, but surely that head has a LOT of similarity with the S2 except that its one cylinder smaller - right ?
                          Paul Nugent
                          Webmaster http://S2central.net
                          Administrator http://S2forum.com

                          1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                          2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                          2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                          Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                          There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                          Comment

                          • mcandmar
                            S2Forum Zealot
                            • Apr 2004
                            • 5118
                            • Country: Ireland

                            #28
                            Correct, the company i sent you the link for westward engineering are the guys to talk to for all things VW in this country. I found out about them through an Irish GTi forum
                            91CQ20v - Gone to a new home
                            93UR-S4 - The Magic Carpet
                            94S2Bus - The Emerald Express

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                            • S2central.net
                              Retired OG Mod
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 16590
                              • Country: Northern Ireland

                              #29
                              Cool - I'll get the stock 7A flowbenched at Westward, then we can compare those figures with the 16V VW data at cncheads for another data point.
                              Paul Nugent
                              Webmaster http://S2central.net
                              Administrator http://S2forum.com

                              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                              Comment

                              • 4WheelDrifter
                                S2Forum Zealot
                                • Oct 2004
                                • 5773
                                • Country: Devon

                                #30
                                Golf 2 16V heads do look the same as our 20V heads, just with the 5th chamber added to the back of the head IIRC. Most of the valves and related components seem to be interchangable too.

                                I think it was a guy from cncheads that myself and VolcanoRS spoke to at the Autosport show some time ago. We got some useful information from him.
                                I was taking photos from all angles of any ported Golf 16V heads I could find. A guy on one of the stands didn't seem to like that much, and told me I wasn't allowed to copy them. As if.

                                I wasn't sure about port matching the valve guides. I guess this will improve flow a lot, but could compromise valve guide life. I'll probably just bullet the valve guide tips. I know Mr VolcanoRS has done this before, and I've seem a few ported heads with this feature.

                                Go for it Paul. It's a very satisfying job once you have finished. Untill you decided to do a just little bit more to it.
                                SS

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