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Looking back on Audi's racing history, two intersecting articles from UK perspectives

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  • Looking back on Audi's racing history, two intersecting articles from UK perspectives

    The original quattro is such an fascinating vehicle in so many aspects, for instance, not unlike the Volkswagen Beetle before it, it was born in part out of a military contract, but in this case for a war that never came. What follows are just small bits of some of its' mostly behind the scenes history.

    It might be said that, despite being revolutionary at its' debut, it was evolution (i.e.: traditional hot-rodding) more so than a lot of technology, that allowed it the long history of success that we can look back on and be inspired by. Happily, it is the legacy of that era that allows us to yet play with them still. We lucky few.

    The first article is very short and is here, lifted from a 2014 thread titled "Ackermann Angle" on the Audi Classic forum in a post by Groundhog:

    "At the end of the day I speak as someone with twenty-five years of hands on experience in motorsport not only with the Audi UK rally team but working on numerous special projects and research and development at all levels on numerous cars right down to road cars. (The MK1 Escort BDA is still the finest race car ever made) and more than advise you based on this I can do no more.

    This talk of suspension reminded me of an incident on a rally once when Michelle Mouton came on the radio to say she had hit something and bent the suspension on the Quattro and to advise at the next service parts would need changing so we got out a complete front suspension to change wholesale to save time. Fifteen minutes later she came back on – she hit something else and, she assumed, bent back the suspension and reckoned the car was driving better than it had ever done – in fact other than making sure nothing was going to fail she insisted the set up remained for the rest of the race and was adapted for her own personal set up in the future. Many years latter I took, on behalf of David Sutton, a Quattro to Goodwood for her drive and the first thing she said was has the suspension been set for me or do I need to bend it?.
    "

    The other piece, much longer (complete with a period video clip), is found on Audiworld-com surprisingly, so I will simply provide a link:

    https://www.audiworld.com/articles/a...ttro-goodness/

    Points of intersection:


    The S1 (BTW, after seeing how well this car corners, one wonders why someone would ever want to lower theirs).png Even the car itself was an intersection, an amalgam, part sedan, part coupe.png Driver-s signature .png La Pilote formidibale!.png A multi-faceted multi-national effort .png

  • #2
    thank you!

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    • #3
      Yes, thanks for this. I was lucky enough to actually spectate at that Ulster Rally. No one had seen anything like that sport quattro before. The hair still stands on the back of my neck when I think about it! My favourite bit is when, in the interview, Walter says that he is only here for testing and the interviewer suggests that that means he won’t be going “ flat out “. “To be a proper test you must go even more flat out than normally” he replies!
      At 6:41 in this video watch the spectator’s reaction!! That is what it was like at every stage after he went through. Total disbelief that any car could be so quick.
      Last edited by Greg_S; 21 December 2020, 11:36.
      1996 S2 ABY Coupe silver
      2003 S3 8L dolphin grey
      2014 RS4 B8 prism silver

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      • #4
        Happy to share. I too am struck by both the confidence and ability of those drivers (and navigators!), and the technical excellence of those cars to transmit and respond to control signals so accurately, making that confidence possible. Wouldn't you love to know just what Ms. Mouton did to her car?

        You are very lucky indeed to have attended such an event, as those days are gone. Just imagine all the back-ground work (by both participants and organizers) needed to pull off events like those, unfathomable!

        I written to GroundHog, asking if he has any technical remembrances or further details of Michelle Mouton's (double-bent derived) set-up that he could share.

        We won't be tweaking the coming e-cars with nearly the same abandon!

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        • #5
          Yes thanks Dave for posting was great to see the old footage. Nice one . Kindest Regards Lynn.

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          • #6
            I received a couple of responses from "Groundhog" via the Classic Audi forum, very interesting. Gotta have some dinner first and digest what I've learned, more to follow.

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            • #7
              Here's most of Groundhog's reply WRT Ms Mouton's double-bent derived set-up, rally car alignments, and his friend Norman Gault, whose recollections as a former member of the Audi UK Rally Team are quoted in that 40 Years of Quattro... article linked to above.

              "From memory the bottom wishbone was bent initially on one of the outer stays (not dramatically). Soon after while reversing after a miscalculated corner she caught the stay the other side which sort of straitened things. The wishbone was changed later anyway. When we met some years later her comment was more ‘tongue in cheek’.

              It might come as a surprise to learn that the geometry on the rally cars was set up with string and by eye - occasionally we might have used some basic mirrored tracking gauges, this, bearing in mind that the dealership that was on the same site as the motorsport workshop had state of the art four wheel alignment equipment, in truth that sort of accuracy was not necessary. One has to remember the punishing way they were driven and the trauma inflicted on any one stage meant we worked in whole numbers and not fractions.

              As far as Mouton's personal set up is concerned all drivers are different on their expectations and needs, it could be something very significant or trivial. Often we would set a car up and the driver would just get in, test it and then drive the race, others would ask for specific adjustments and tweaks - Mouton was in the latter camp, but that said alterations were not done in a clinical way (unlike today).

              Interesting article that mentions Norman Gault. Norman was, and is, a much respected figure in Audi sport circles,. He’s based near where I live and we do see each other from time to time to catch up."

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              • #8
                ^^

                What does Norman drive at present?.......and what's in his stable?!

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                • #9
                  Good question John, I'll ask Groundhog if he knows.

                  Groundhog also replied to some questions I had about whether there was anything set-up-wise he thought we might employ from the rally cars, and he thought not, however he did write back with the following which dove-tails nicely with what Norman Gault spoke of in that '40 Years...' piece from Audiworld:

                  "Hello again.
                  If you have not seen it before, there is a video on you-tube that shows us changing a gearbox in Jordan. If you search ‘Gearbox the Movie’ it will come up. Not the highest quality but it will show you the front suspension and how it differs. This is pertinent to Norman Gault's reference to the speed a box could be changed in, the dowels and bolts on the drive shaft, and the exhaust that could be dropped in an instant, etc. You can also see when the box is out how the top of the bell housing was cut away to allow clearance when removing. Also note that unlike an Audi of the time, where no work at all was required inside the car to remove a gearbox, on the rally car two mechanics were inside working throughout."

                  Here's a link to that video:

                  Audi quattro A2 Gr.B - Rothmans Team - Saeed Alhajri - GEARBOX THE MOVIE

                  Very interesting to me is that if one looks closely, one can see how the long fore/aft rally spec only suspension 'stays', (added to the apex of each of the A-arms, see illustration), which very unlike the stock arrangement, are configured to carry the fore/aft (braking & acceleration) loads to the chassis, relieving the A-arm bushes of that particular task. Brilliant!

                  Aren't we fortunate to be able to speak with one of the guys who was there!

                  Audi S1 drivetrain complete, one of the four stays indicated .png
                  Last edited by Lago Blue; 17 December 2020, 05:17. Reason: photo added

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for sharing matey
                    ABY Cricket Green Pearl Coupe, blk leather
                    THE ONLY TROUBLE WITH DOING NOTHING IS KNOWING WHEN YOUR FINISHED!!!

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                    • #11
                      Another reply from Groundhog WRT what he and Norman Gault have been up to, and are driving now.


                      "Last time I met Norman he was driving a Land Rover, I believe he has use of pool cars from Audi UK but his business now is in transporting rally and race cars often for photo shoots and the Land Rover suits this.

                      Yes the Escort, for me, was the epitome of the all round time tested race/rally car. I have had the enviable pleasure of driving most rally cars of the time and in part a lot of them were just ‘thugs’ that won through brute force and ignorance - the quattro being just one example when it first came out. The quattro was not a well balanced car to drive primarily because a lot of weight hung out over the front sub frame. The Sport quattro, to all intents and purposes, was built to overcome the limitations of the A1. This is well documented by drivers who readily admit it took some getting used to.

                      Ha ha! it always comes as a surprise for people to learn I have never owned an Audi and, with the utmost respect, have no aspirations to own one. I might be tempted if a very early (1980/81) homologation quattro came along but the chances of that are as good as zero. I guess working on Quattro’s day in day out for the best part of 20 years dulled my resolve to own one. I in fact drive a Honda CRV and have for many a year although I have always owned a VW as a main or second car and when my current Honda comes up for renewal I shall get a Passat Alltrack to replace it. I joined classic Audi just to pass on help and info, I am also a friend of ‘Isimmo’, one of the moderators.

                      I stopped working on cars about twenty years ago, at the time I was working for a Audi specialist restoration company in fact one of the last jobs I did was a ‘sympathetic’ restoration of the very same Rothman's quattro that appears in the video. I then worked in the science department of a school until retiring as I had university qualifications in science that I never used because I went into motorsport. So that’s what this old motorsport mechanic ended up doing.

                      I do own a couple of old cars. I don’t do links but if you google Hillman Minx Mk Vlll convertible and Lanchester LD10, in fact if you google images of the Hillman mine comes up, it’s red with whitewall tyres. Both very rare vehicles...but not Audi’s."


                      Unfortunately, I couldn't open Audi UK's online heritage showroom to see the cars Mr. Gault looks after, perhaps there's a trick to it?
                      I did find an action photo from that 1988 Jordan rally of that same car from the Gearbox video that Groundhog worked on again years later.
                      I didn't find a photo of his Hillman, but did find this old advert, pretty fair price for a cabrio!

                      Audi UK heritage cars online showroom .png Rothmans Audi Jordan rally 1998 Screen Shot 2020-12-16 at 23.08.18.png Hillman Minx cabrio Screen Shot 2020-12-16 at 23.15.43.png

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                      • #12
                        Brilliant stuff, I can remember loads from the Group B days but this has reminded me how much I have forgotten, so can't thank you enough for posting

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