Audi S2 Questions / Help / Knowledge

[Milked]

Good Evening,

I've been part of this forum for a few years but only really read into topics and not responded a huge amount apart from some initial pictures when I purchased my S2 (Well what i think is an S2).

I bought the car in 2016 in Cyprus as i was living there... the car and the log book being a S2 (Log book stating the correct engine and HP of a S2) and as you'll see in the pictures below i believe the car has every characteristic of an S2. I've recently put the car on Ebay as i left Cyprus and exported it to the UK (although i'm not living in the UK).

Now the auction went successfully, but the winner of the auction (I've not sold it yet) has mentioned the car may have originally been a Audi Quattro Coupe, and not an S2 and someone has taken it upon themselves to turn it into an S2 prior to me purchasing it.

The car as i understand is a 1990 Audi S2 with a 3B engine. Originally registered on 01/01/1991.

Below are all the pictures of the car including the VIN, it would be incredible if some of you could pass your wisdom on this, as right now i feel slightly lost.

Thanks alot!
Max

[Tractor Dave]

Audi Tradition will issue you with a birth certificate for a small fee. This will confirm what that chassis number left the factory as. Unfortunately, without a thorough examination by someone who knows what they are looking for, it's impossible to tell from your pictures that your car isn't a ringer. This is when a stolen cars identity is swapped to another similar car. This happened a lot back in the 90's and a lot of stolen uk cars often turn up abroad.
Of course, the other possibility is that someone took a Coupe Quattro and swapped over all the necessary S2 parts or its a genuine S2. Why is the buyer suspicious?

[K Simmonds]

What you have there sir is a 3B S2, and a very nice one as well by the looks of it.

I can tell from the first pic, the floor pan is flared each side of the center console to accommodate the catalytic converters.

No other models had this floor pan.

Does it have history to back up the mileage? As if it does that's worth a lot of money, well it's worth a lot of money anyway but you know what I mean.

[SteveH]

Floor pan looks correct for a 3B but no strut brace?

[SteveH]

Perforated faux leather inserts are correct but the doorcards and seats appear to have been retrimmed at some stage. It has the early style heater switches too so correct for period.

[K Simmonds]

Good spot on the lack of strut brace, that is odd, perhaps very early ones didn't have them?

The floor pan is enough of a give away for me as well as all the other S2 specific parts.

[K Simmonds]

The weights stated on the VIN plate are also correct for an S2, as is the 8B part of the VIN number itself.

Lack of strut brace is an odd one though as my car was an ex dealer demo registered in 1990 and that had a brace.

[Milked]

So just a brief understanding as to why i made this post,

He was close to collecting the car and then he ran the VIN through a checker its coming back as an either an Audi 90, or an Audi Quattro Coupe (2.3L Non Turbo). Its not coming back as an Audi S2, and somehow he's finding a numberplate the VIN was registered too which also mentions the 2.3L engine and not the 2.2L Turbo engine.

Now I would be surprised if the Cyprus customs would of registered the car when it was imported with a different engine and HP to the V5 the car would of been exported with. Additionally as it was exported in 1994 i don't fully understand why someone would purchase a Audi Quattro Coupe and then make all the adjustments too convert it when the S2 was in production.

It has pretty much no history, to my knowledge, this car was exported to Cyprus in 1994, it was restored by an RAF pilot between 2005 and 2016. This is why the seats are not original as the old ones we're not salvageable (sat in a Barn)
Its completely rust free which is one of the reasons I bought it in 2016 as i was intending to continue to recondition the car. I recently added a new timing belt, water pump and radiator as the old rad started to leak.

I have very little mechanical background or knowledge of the S2, so the strut brace was something he also mentioned.
In the end he didn't want to take the risk which I completely understand, but before I continue trying to sell it or make further improvements I wanted to make sure that the car is what I think it is... I'm not someone who would be happy selling a car under false pretenses.

Does the floorplan only run on 3B or also would be on the 2.3L NA Coupe? and was the chassis similar for various Audi's in this period?

I massively appreciate all this feedback!

[K Simmonds]

That floor pan is absolutely excusive to 3B S2's, otherwise the Coupe quattro shells are almost identical apart from the strut brace.

They're one of my favorite cars alongside RS2's. Either own or have own both and there's not much I don't spot as I do all my own mechanical work...

Your car doesn't strike me as a re-shelled S2. There's the floor pan which would be a massive job to swap and hide the fact it's been done, much easier to add a strut brace! Also the car has all the correct trim and buttons etc for an early S2.

That VIN plate info is weird in that case, it point's to the car perhaps being stolen and ringed back in the 1990's. The only Coupe quattro 2.3's were either ten valve NG and 20 valve 7A engine cars.

I can't see someone swapping floor pans I can however see VIN plates being tampered with, though the strut brace being missing is very odd.

And I forgot to say welcome to the Forum...

Also no problem on the feedback, the whole point of tis forum is to help each other as opposed to the Facebook groups which tend to be more about "here's my shinny new s5it, like it so I feel good"

[mdz]

Most online VIN decoders for Audi are useless BS, this is not a BMW were you can get full wehicle spec online for free. Some sites decodes this car as a Coupe quattro 2.3, some as 2.3 fwd, some as an A4
No strut brace, pressed front wishbones, but in mean time wider tunnel.

[K Simmonds]

That's a good point the VIN decoders for Audis are renowned for being inaccurate, and as I said the 8B bit is correct for a 3B S2.

Pressed front wishbones could easily be replacement's, it's the no strut brace thing that's throwing me.

[Lago Blue]

I'm not familiar w/S2s but here's some questions.

Simple - Although these are replaceable parts, the removal of a little bit of the black (is it non-original spray-paint or perhaps undercoat?) on the main springs might reveal if those factory codes are S2 or not; and wouldn't the A/R bars be slightly different ODs on an S2, correct?

Easy - Is there still a white factory sticker in the boot with all the option codes typed on it? Are there codes that would be only S2 specific?

Harder -There may still be a factory build sheet tucked up in between the firewall and front of the large black plastic HVAC box. Would this not detail the original specs sufficiently?

[K Simmonds]

Yeah, as above if you can find the white production sticker on the rear panel behind the carpet that could revel all, unless that's been tampered with as well though that's a lot less likely then the VIN plate being swapped.

[Tractor Dave]

Have you got the original UK registration number? Try inputting that into the gov " check vehicle tax" and see what comes up. Maybe also check the mot history but there probably won't be any records that far back. As Kit says, it's very unlikely anyone would weld the chassis extensions on to a Coupe Quattro to make it look like an S2 so a ringer is less likely.
Also try ringing a friendly Audi dealer in the UK. They have a database showing service history of UK cars and are normally very helpful if you ask nicely. And don't forget the birth certificate from Audi Tradition.
I am retired now but was a Police officer for 32 years. I was trained as a C10 examiner back in the day which involves checking suspected 'rung' cars with a thorough examination. I 'm happy to give further advice by PM if required

[K Simmonds]

I've been over and over those pic's and I'm baffled, it's got everything a 3B S2 should have, apart from the strut brace and there's no sign in engine bay photo of there ever having been one.

BTW those HT leads are routed incorrectly, they should go around the back/under the throttle body then emerge where that blue hose is and run inside the recess in the cam cover, then there's a plastic cover that say's "20V Turbo" on it which goes over the top, that is being picky mid you.

Also the ISV pipe work doesn't look quite right but that doesn't mean it's not an S2.