Pros/Cons of the S2

[shark_90]

I agree that with a decent manifold and map that a Subaru can lose the sound, but unfortunately that's not what happens is it! Every Subaru around here (and there are a few) is pretty much standard with a MASSIVE exhaust on the back which just accentuates that ridiculous noise. My S2 is unfortunately nearly back to standard so I won't be prowling around embarrassing many people any more

[Sonic]

I thought the "burble" was caused by the design of the exhaust manifold?

[GazzaG60]

unfortunatley yes most seem to like it going blub..blub..blub as loud as possible.

we prefered turning it into a warble with better off boost response and super on boost response.

the burble is due to the way the flat 4 runs an engine cycle. the rock is visible at idle. an equal lenght header is a good option but hard to fit properly. that removes some of it. a 4-1 helps here too. mapping really helps.

an issue with headers is how close the oil lines for an external oil cooler run to it.

im aware of a couple of fires along the way.

[shark_90]

It is, I'm sure someone more technical than me can explain in a more substantial way, but I understood it that the manifold is grossly mis-matched and the sound is basically made as the turbulent exhaust gases fight against each other as they try to exit the manifold. With a decent manifold this can be pretty much eliminated and it will sound more like a normal 4-pot.

[shark_90]

And there you go, someone who is more technical than me was answering at the same time as me!!

[GazzaG60]

ive seen lots of them. they dont float my boat really otherwise id have one. i have no doubt they handle better and will provide a faster car if necessary. not sure if any of you have seen andy forrests car doing a quarter mile. 9.6 or so. its fast in a stright line if needed too.

the reasons against for me are.

lots of jobs on the engine require engine out. if you wanna go inside the engine fir sure. a polug change is in a tight space.
cam belt is timing up4 pulleys of which 2 have to be loaded up prior to fitting the belt. 2 man job really.
the dash
the "*****er/dealer/big head/show-off" stigma attached.

[Kit]

I thought the "burble" was caused by the design of the exhaust manifold?

It's both, firing order of the boxer engine along with the shape of the exhaust manifold collector. When you buy an aftermarket equal length manifold, a boxer sounds more like a bike engine with more bass/supercar.

I don't mean to disappoint but it sounds like I will stick with the Ra (for now), i'm not really interested in straight line speed. I wouldn't be buying the S2 as a daily drive with allot of muscle, i'd be buying it as a weekend car. I like the pure and basic aggressive properties of the Ra, it seems i've decided against the S2 for exactly the same reasons as a Nissan Skyline R32 GTR.

I will however continue to renovate my type 81, b2 with a 20v n/a 2.5 stroker build. Gotta say i'm really impressed with the even minded and informative responses, I expected to get a load of very biased replies.

Great forum/community

[stiglet]

I will however continue to renovate my type 81, b2 with a 20v n/a 2.5 stroker build.

I'm planning on a N/A stroker 2.5 20v too, but in a B3 coupe. You on audifans?

[shark_90]

Gotta say i'm really impressed with the even minded and informative responses, I expected to get a load of very biased replies.

Great forum/community

Thankfully we don't all have rose tinted specs

[KaraK]

ive seen lots of them. they dont float my boat really otherwise id have one. i have no doubt they handle better and will provide a faster car if necessary. not sure if any of you have seen andy forrests car doing a quarter mile. 9.6 or so. its fast in a stright line if needed too.

the reasons against for me are.

lots of jobs on the engine require engine out. if you wanna go inside the engine fir sure. a polug change is in a tight space.
cam belt is timing up4 pulleys of which 2 have to be loaded up prior to fitting the belt. 2 man job really.
the dash
the "*****er/dealer/big head/show-off" stigma attached.

The plugs are a barsteward but there are specialist tools that make it a lot easier - can't say my mechanic has ever complained about doing the belts - and he's a one-man band.

[KaraK]

Admit it.. everyone was just waiting for me to come wandering into this thread

I'm a big fan of both the scoobs and the S2s but for me the scoob has always edged
it - I prefer the slight edginess they have. As I once described it to a mate the s2 is a dragon in a smoking jacket - and in that vein the scoob is a dragon in a denim jacket: slightly unusual sense of style but you still wouldnt mess with it

And dare I say it I actually love the burble - for me it brings alot of character to the engine note that most 4 pots just don't have. Both the flat 4 and the I5 have that distinctiveness that lets you know something a bit special is going past


Although the fit and finish of the interior of the Audi far out strips that of the scooby I wouldnt say there is much in it in terms of reliability and Subaru parts are certainly easier to obtain and for the most part cheaper.

Both can hit big power numbers for similar money, although a big power scooby would probably be harder to driver then an a similar powered S2.

Fundamentally the scooby layout is better for handling - the engine package leads to better CoG and weight distribution and the lighter/stiffer chassis gives gives a good headstart into it being "chuckable" - this is by no means saying the Audi doesn't handle though, it just needs a smoother hand.

The anonymity of the S2 is great - no one sees you coming. The in your face ness of the scooby brings out the big kid in me - its a guilty pleasure that I'll admit to. At the same time though it does get you down being paranoid about parking it anywhere that doesnt have CCTV and guards with guns.

[Rusty]

Egg Zachary Orificer Casey. The Scooby will always sound like an MGB with a straight through exhaust and will always stick out like a paed0phile in a playground.

The S2 is a total sleeper. It looks like an old Audi 80 to most people even with its badges still in place but debadged it won't get a second look until you light the blue touch paper.

Out of the box, the Scooby will always out corner the S2 (why the hell did Audi put the engi that far forwards in a Coupe ) and can equal the straight line performance £ for £ as you start tuning, so if you drive point to point flat out all of the time, stick with the Scooby.

But, if you want relaxed understated motoring with the ability to embarass most modern cars (and my mate on his Bandit 600 - god was he p!$$ed off ) on the odd occasion that there is a quiet road and a knob in the next lane then you are making the right move

Cheers n

Si

The Audi understeer in normal driving (ignoring the physics side of things) IMO is down to the chassis tuning, it can be overcome with some simple yet effective mods. I can't remember the last time I had understeer issues on what is basically a stock car with a big RARB. When you reach the limit of grip under power, then it shows itself up but in that situation most cars with the basic 50:50 split will do so. The new Scoobys are pretty safe, most of the sideways shots are lift-off oversteer and, as anyone who's been in my car will testify, I can get plenty of that too. The new scoobys are also nearing 1500kg and are a bit soft... ring any bells

All that said, the Scooby is still a better handling car but not by the margin you might believe. The S2 steering is sharp but vague and the chassis needs tightening up to get the most out of it, even on brand new rubber bushes the weight plays a big part.

Overall I've often wanted my S2 to handle differently but I've never really wanted a Scooby (except a Spec C or 22B maybe). I think that's why I still love every mile in the S2, a great feeling after having the car 5 years and putting a lot of time, money and love into it.

[Rusty]

It's both, firing order of the boxer engine along with the shape of the exhaust manifold collector. When you buy an aftermarket equal length manifold, a boxer sounds more like a bike engine with more bass/supercar.

I don't mean to disappoint but it sounds like I will stick with the Ra (for now), i'm not really interested in straight line speed. I wouldn't be buying the S2 as a daily drive with allot of muscle, i'd be buying it as a weekend car. I like the pure and basic aggressive properties of the Ra, it seems i've decided against the S2 for exactly the same reasons as a Nissan Skyline R32 GTR.

I will however continue to renovate my type 81, b2 with a 20v n/a 2.5 stroker build. Gotta say i'm really impressed with the even minded and informative responses, I expected to get a load of very biased replies.

Great forum/community

They are all subliminally biased

I think in general a lot of people on this forum have graduated to the S2 through Golfs / NA Audis / BMWs etc. and so have apretty wide breadth of experience and thus accept that the S2 isn't the best car in the world but that on the right road in any conditions you can enjoy yourself and suprise most cars out there

[shark_90]

I think in general a lot of people on this forum have graduated to the S2 through Golfs / NA Audis / BMWs etc.

Speak for yourself mate, I downgraded from a modified B6 A4

[Rusty]

Speak for yourself mate, I downgraded from a modified B6 A4

Unless it was an S4 I'd hardly call that 'downgrading'