7A 2.3 20V Tuning

[Rusty]

Right, just wondering if anyone's tuned a 7A up and what results they got. Reason being that a mate is looking to go racing and wants to use an Audi as he likes them, looking at the pre-94 Touring Cars.

Obviously, being an NA engine the following tuning applies:-

• Performance cams (CAT Cams, DBillas, Scrick)
• Ported and polished head
• Internals lighten and balance
• Lightenerd FW
• Late spec tubular EM and freer flowing exhaust
• ECU upgrade / replacement
• Capacity increase a la RE2500
• Rev limiter increase using solid lifter conversion and upgraded valve springs
• Throttle bodies (these were covered on another thread I think)

A few questions:-

• How does the Hitatchi (?) injection cope?
• What's sort of rev limit reduction do you get off 2.5 conversion with 95.5 crank?
• What power and torque figures have people seen?

I'd hope for well over 200 with stock power at 170, 1.8 16v engines see 170bhp from 135 so I'd hope that you the same level of gain would apply while maintaining reliability. Ideally I'd like 200bhp/ton so a 90q would need 220-240bhp to reach this.

The other option is to get a 2.3 10v and to up it to 2.5l, due to equivalency on 2V/cyl engines this would make the 2.0 category. Anything over 180bhp should see this do well and obviously the 10V torque is immense.

[S2central.net]

I really want to play with one of these... It shouldn't take too long to find the main maps in that Hitachi ECU - I've already got some insight, but the checksums are a pain. Probably no big deal as the ECU will just throw a code for that but run otherwise fine.

Alternatively - you could maybe get more fun out of an aftermarket system like VEMS, Emerald, 034 etc etc That would remove MAF for starters and you could get into sexy 5-pot throttle bodies. Going for the good 100bhp per liter standard I think you could have lots of fun and no turbo lag... If you can get solid lifters then you are into 8000rpm territory with a nice light bottom end. Could be mad power alright - but only if the camshafts allow - and there is likely a trade off with low-mid range traction. No VVT here

[Rusty]

The 2.3 should be OK for mid-range and as a race car you want decent torque from about 3-7k. That 5 pot over the front wheels is some free traction control too

A mate is into megasquirt so could look into that, an aftermarket option is best really but there is the piggyback option for initial playing.

The 1.8 16v engine is what I was basig my ideas on as it's very similar in design although the bore and stroke on the enlarged 7A are slightly different.

I think there's mileage here and of course, you'd end up with something that looked a little like the supertouring, although unless you swap pannels it'll not be a B4 front end.

The B3 smaller arches and coupe-esque rear suspension are a small issue and will lead to entertaining rather than fast handling but that's half the fun and as there wasn't a 2.3 20v B4 over here, the other option is the 2.6/8 V6 and I can't see that being too tuneable really, not under racing rules (i.e. no SC).

[S2central.net]

Don't like Megasquirt - its a toy and the software is shyte IMHO. Piggybacking is always a nasty cludge.

Why not put the 7A engine into a B4 quattro saloon - with an 01E 6-speed and Torsen at the rear - that would be cool !

As to the engine mgmt - I'd go with Emerald... Not a silly price. They are UK based. The s/w is good and they can handle 5 sequential injectors and a single coil. You might need a 60-2 crankwheel, but then again maybe not. The man behind Emerald is a legend.

[Azman]

Low pressure supercharger should be handled by the standard ecu IIRC, it has been talked about on here but should push over the 200BHP mark and alos give the grunt up top if geared properly?/

[Rusty]

As it's for racing engine swaps and bolt-on SCs aren't allowed, has to be original engine and chassis. Nowt wrong with MS for the money really but it's not the final word in sophistication

If I was going to bother swapping an I5 into a B4 saloon then I'd stick an ABY in

[20Vcqdriver]

I played with one of these before deciding to fit the 20Vt. Had mine upto about 195bhp and loved to rev to 7500rpm.
I fitted a larger MAF from the V6, uprated injectors, decent exhaust minus cats and a switchable chip to allow the engine to make full use of 98+RON fuel .
I was planning on upgrading to 2.5 but with a 92.8mm crank so it would still rev past 6500rpm and 83mm pistons also used in the 2litre 16v engine.
Due to the high revving nature of the 7A I would not use the 95.5mm.
With the 2.5 and ported head and mildly uprated Shrick cams plus the above I was looking to get 230 to 250bhp.
have pics of the various changes somewhere...
PS. Tune the present inlet. Fitting short throttle bodies reduces low to mid range torque.
David

Right, just wondering if anyone's tuned a 7A up and what results they got. Reason being that a mate is looking to go racing and wants to use an Audi as he likes them, looking at the pre-94 Touring Cars.

Obviously, being an NA engine the following tuning applies:-

• Performance cams (CAT Cams, DBillas, Scrick)
• Ported and polished head
• Internals lighten and balance
• Lightenerd FW
• Late spec tubular EM and freer flowing exhaust
• ECU upgrade / replacement
• Capacity increase a la RE2500
• Rev limiter increase using solid lifter conversion and upgraded valve springs
• Throttle bodies (these were covered on another thread I think)

A few questions:-

• How does the Hitatchi (?) injection cope?
• What's sort of rev limit reduction do you get off 2.5 conversion with 95.5 crank?
• What power and torque figures have people seen?

I'd hope for well over 200 with stock power at 170, 1.8 16v engines see 170bhp from 135 so I'd hope that you the same level of gain would apply while maintaining reliability. Ideally I'd like 200bhp/ton so a 90q would need 220-240bhp to reach this.

The other option is to get a 2.3 10v and to up it to 2.5l, due to equivalency on 2V/cyl engines this would make the 2.0 category. Anything over 180bhp should see this do well and obviously the 10V torque is immense.

[GazzaG60]

why not use a better engined better handling car like a honda integra. if you do all that above you may be able to keep with one for 2x the cost.

the 16v be it kr,pl,9a,6a all rev higher better so make a higher hp figure. those 1.8s you talk of andy have bigger ports alos so flow better. coupled with 2 exhaust cams theres plenty of lift to. as for the pistons. 82.5 is the 9a,6a size. if you needs some let me know. i got 2 sets. 83 is what i bored my 6a to. rods are an issue at high rpm. especailly the bolts. use some arp ford 289 bolts. you get 2 sets (v8) for half the price of the 16v set.

the 7a is more 9a based. smaller port softer cam. cat friendly.

my personal opinion is the audi is too heavy and not good for hp extraction. bang for buck.

my advice is use a 16v if it must be a vag and use a mk2 golf also.

as for tuning. megasquirt id pretty good i think for the cost. megatune is pretty ok really. use the dizzy and you need an output stage t he ones different to ours with the pins on one side. a fiver off ebay i paid for a new lucas one.

i think theres a certain person in the states who is making digi1, motronic and digi3 (abf) vems adaptors.

[Rusty]

I've already looked into several options and have been a Golf man myself for many years, this guy wants to use an Audi really. Pre '94 makes a UK Integra no go.

A 2.0 16V sport B3 is an option also, a bit lighter and a known quantity in the tuning stakes, I wanted to gain knowledge on the 7A to see if it was a possibility...

[GazzaG60]

fair doo's would expect be difficult in the power to weight on an audi. are integras not available in 93 imports? if its not his bag then fair enough.

i could see it costing a lot for not a great race car thats all. if you go 16v i may have parts that will help like

schrick solid lifter cams
2 x exhaust cams with the correct timing wheels.
9a block with scats and wisecos (turbo though) fully rebuilt, bored to 83mm.
home made inlet with stacks and 2 throttle body types. 1 to fit a vr6 one and the other to fit the mustang one in my avatar. the left one is kr TB the right is 75mm mustang.
baffled sump and windage tray.
brand new dizzy.

give me a shout if you go that way and want any parts.

[stiglet]

The 7A will rev very high even with a 95.5 crank, i've said it before i'll say it again! Look at Motorgeeks, they routinely get the strokers revving high as long as you use the stroker block.

Golf is pretty evens with the CQ, my mate has a fettled GTi and the handling is identical to my CQ. We are exactly evens stevens round the track. CQ will be fun if nothing else

Andy, your best bet is to ask on motorgeeks. They'll give you a more informed answer.

[goodall]

i have looked in to direct head throttles and get proper results you need about 12" about at 7000rpm from valve to trumpet end (free air) or if want more useable about 18" at 4500rpm, which maybe an issue to get the space in the engine bay with the radiator there

good go old school on it, use 5 bike carbs from r1 and a kv dizzy, be cheap and quick, but ignition map probably be horrible

[Rusty]

Wouldn't be a quattro, 4wd ist verboten unt heavy! Golfs are great but he doesn't want one, Jetta maybe or 4 pot 80. Will need to have a look, not going to happen till the end of the year and I'm sure he'll change his mind a few times before taking the plunge...

[stiglet]

Do it! He'll love it! He might not be the quickest thing out there but he'll be original!

I reckon the 7A has potential for sure. I'm still deciding what to do with mine, but I'm pretty sure a stroker with the TSR head should see at least 200bhp.

The Hitachi ECU is crap BTW. And regarding the V6 maf, not all it's cracked up to be. 034 have tried experimenting with a chip on the V6 MAF and they didn't get good results so sacked it in for the time being.

[20Vcqdriver]

Have you seen this website: http://www.20v-sauger-tuning.de/