S2 Injector Flow

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  • T2Andy
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Mar 2005
    • 1903
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    S2 Injector Flow

    Does any one know how much bhp the standard S2 injectors are good for
    or when when would it be advisable to change them ,would you need a larger
    fuel pump then and fpr too thanks
    The engine i will be running is rated at 350hp with a ported \flowed head.
    sigpic
  • S2central.net
    Retired OG Mod
    • Jul 2003
    • 16590
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #2
    I'll spare you all the math, but on an S2 - the max bhp you can get is the same number as the injector flow rating - assuming nominal overheads on duty cycle.

    Stock injectors run at 320cc per minute ==> 320bhp
    RS2 injectors get you into 360cc per minute ==> 360bhp territory
    Bosch Greensare 440cc per minute ==> 440bhp country

    Seeing the trend here ?

    Its one of those anomolies and rules of thumb that is a good reckoner - you can squeeze a little higher than those ratings as we run higher fuel pressure than the 3bar (43.5psi) that injectors are tested at - traded off with knowledge that you shouldn't drive them much harder than 85-90% duty... So this is not an exact science.

    For your target then RS2 injectors should do just fine. FPR of 4bar is fine for that. Adjustable FPR is nice quick easy way to trim out best mixture at WOT if its found to drift off with fuel quality an aging pump or whatever - or playing with E85/95 fuel and other ECU tweaks.
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

    Comment

    • T2Andy
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Mar 2005
      • 1903
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      Thanks paul i did read one of your other posts on this topic which makes things clear
      i was wondering because the MTM set up i will have is rated at 350bhp but it does run standard injectors plus i also have the supersprint down pipe rs2 airbox which is over and above what you get in the conversion so it might run alittle more ? if this is the case then the standard injectors will be past there limit no.Or the set up doesnt make that figure in the first place ,confused i am
      Last edited by T2Andy; 26 August 2009, 22:59.
      sigpic

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      • T2Andy
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Mar 2005
        • 1903
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        ps .if i was to add larger injectors would the MTM chipset not be compatible with the new flow caperbilities .phew
        sigpic

        Comment

        • S2central.net
          Retired OG Mod
          • Jul 2003
          • 16590
          • Country: Northern Ireland

          #5
          The highest figure I have seen from stock injectors is 330-340bhp on the Nothelle ABY setup... I've always wondered if they ran a slightly higher fuel pressure for that, but I've been told this is not the case. When you do the math you find that a 320cc (at 3bar) injector runs to 370cc at 4bar so with a 95% duty you get 350cc ==> 350bhp. IMHO this is really on the ragged limit.

          And to answer your question - changing to different spec injectors without ECU mods will throw off your fuelling big style.
          Paul Nugent
          Webmaster http://S2central.net
          Administrator http://S2forum.com

          1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
          2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
          2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

          Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

          There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

          Comment

          • shark_90
            S2Forum Extremist
            • Mar 2007
            • 1475
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            It was one of my concerns when I was looking at buying that engine.. 350bhp on standard injectors just doesn't compute. As Paul says (who knows much more about it than me), if you changed the injectors you'd need to change the chips/map to suit.
            1994 Audi S2 Avant - in pieces
            2006 Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0TFSi - goes fast
            1985 Audi 90 quattro - is wet

            Don't forget the East Midlands Meet -Last Tuesday of every month at 7:30pm just off M1 J28!![/COLOR]

            Comment

            • ericd
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Nov 2003
              • 1240
              • Country: Scotland

              #7
              much over 340/350 and the std injectors will go static, somebody on here was selling a set of "green" ones for £200, bargain

              Comment

              • S2central.net
                Retired OG Mod
                • Jul 2003
                • 16590
                • Country: Northern Ireland

                #8
                I stand by my rule of thumb for 320bhp being the ceiling for any sort of headroom on the factory injectors (at 4bar)... Nothelle went to the max at 340 - anymore than that is just dreaming.
                Paul Nugent
                Webmaster http://S2central.net
                Administrator http://S2forum.com

                1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                Comment

                • ericd
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 1240
                  • Country: Scotland

                  #9
                  Originally posted by S2central.net
                  I stand by my rule of thumb for 320bhp being the ceiling for any sort of headroom on the factory injectors (at 4bar)... Nothelle went to the max at 340 - anymore than that is just dreaming.
                  agreed, n300 was supposed to have parity with rs2 performance /power levels quoted
                  at 315.

                  Comment

                  • T2Andy
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 1903
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    so what your saying is ive bought an engine that can not produce its claimed
                    350bhp ,i am still optimistic and it will be on the RR at the end of next month
                    so fingers crossed .
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • S2central.net
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 16590
                      • Country: Northern Ireland

                      #11
                      Well - throw some toluene in the tank - that'll pep things up...

                      I personaly think the 350bhp claim is hyped - but possible on the rollers with an operator who knows how to sway the numbers that way.
                      Its what you get at the wheels is the most important thing so make sure to get those readings and you can compare with S2, RS2 in stock and chipped form to see where the truth really is.

                      Don't get me wrong here - not saying MTM setup you have is rubbish - just the 350bhp claim seems to be a bit hyped. Assume its on a small hyrid K24/26 of some kind ?
                      Paul Nugent
                      Webmaster http://S2central.net
                      Administrator http://S2forum.com

                      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                      Comment

                      • GazzaG60
                        S2Forum Freak
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 4133
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        guys. it depends on where you get the power too.

                        if you have a bigger turbo you will see you cant hit the samer levels as a smaller (stock) item. feeding the engine at 6k is not the same as at 3500.

                        i did 321 and 325lbsft at 5k. at 4k the injectors went 100%dc. after that it hit 10:1 and then rose at a rate similar to the hp curve to 5200 where i terminated the run. 1.35bar boost. with a standard turbo the power drops away just after 5k or so so its not about holding the rpm the same.

                        Comment

                        • GazzaG60
                          S2Forum Freak
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 4133
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #13
                          if you see 350hp then id be surprised Andy. maybe if they fitted a better pump it can hold on a little more.

                          think im on the same RR day as you too. i gotta get the juice going in yet though.

                          Comment

                          • Jamo
                            Retired OG Mod
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 21750
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            I refuse to comment.........

                            Comment

                            • GazzaG60
                              S2Forum Freak
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 4133
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #15
                              you just did lol

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