Power

[Si Blythe]

Is it possible to get a reliable 320 bhp from a standard ABY with just a chip and turbo?

[T2Andy]

Maybe add injectors ,exhaust, intercooler ,you can't add a bigger turbo without adding more fuel and then getting rid of the extra gasses !

[prj]

You will run out of injectors.
You can fit 3B injectors though, and then it should be okay.

[re2500]

I would say minimum Injectors and Downpipe to go with the turbo and map.

[prj]

DP is not needed for 330 hp imo.
I personally think this is not worth the cost. Just get 280 or 290hp (with 3 bar map sensor) remap or go RS2.

[Dan]

You will run out of injectors.
You can fit 3B injectors though, and then it should be okay.

Were the 3B injectors bigger than ABY then? If so, what was the reason for the downsize?

[ericd]

Is it possible to get a reliable 320 bhp from a standard ABY with just a chip and turbo?

yes it is possible, the devil is in the detail though, you'd need something similar to the
"small hybrid 24/26 turbo) mtm, nothelle et al, well discussed and dissected elsewhere on the forum , as for the chip (software,firmware,flash,middleware) depending on your level of pedantry , the same applies the options and suppliers are well discussed , paul, mrc would be your way forward.

[loxxrider]

3b injectors do not flow enough for that much power unless you upped the fuel pressure a LOT. At that point I don't even know if they would open anymore.

[prj]

Were the 3B injectors bigger than ABY then? If so, what was the reason for the downsize?

Yes. They upped the fuel pressure to 4 bar and downsized the injectors. Fuel flow remained unchanged.
3B injectors are 323 cc at 3 bar, AAN injectors are 280cc at 3 bar.
On 3B the FPR is 3 bar, on AAN it is 4 bar.
280cc injectors at 4 bar are like 323cc at 3 bar.
323cc injectors at 4 bar are like 373cc at 3 bar.

3b injectors do not flow enough for that much power unless you upped the fuel pressure a LOT. At that point I don't even know if they would open anymore.

Check your facts before making such statements, because you are very wrong.
3B injectors at 4 bar will work fine upto ~340 hp.
And they have no issues opening/operating at that fuel pressure. Multiple cars running perfectly fine that way.
Also, 1 bar fuel pressure is not "a LOT".

So, cheapest way for that power on AAN/ABY is 3B injectors and k26 hybrid turbo + custom mapping.
You don't need anything else.
Then again, it is a lot of trouble for a 10% power increase.

[T2Andy]

I managed 335bhp with
Rs2 injectors
Supersprint exhaust
K26 hybrid
Head work
044 fuel pump
Rs2 air box
Rs2 intercooler
No air leaks !!
Mtm soft wear
This is very reliable but not cheap IMO but the performance is great compared to a chipped car only ,loads more toque ,i could add a hoffer spec hybrid to this spec and
Take it to 400hp for another £600

[prj]

I managed 335bhp with
Rs2 injectors
Supersprint exhaust
K26 hybrid
Head work
044 fuel pump
Rs2 air box
Rs2 intercooler
No air leaks !!
Mtm soft wear
This is very reliable but not cheap IMO but the performance is great compared to a chipped car only ,loads more toque ,i could add a hoffer spec hybrid to this spec and
Take it to 400hp for another £600

Injectors are overkill, exhaust is not needed, fuel pump not needed, headwork is not needed, airbox is not needed, intercooler is not needed.
Also, your software was not even for your setup. And because someone tells you it is "MTM" or it is written "MTM" in vag-com, does not mean it is MTM software.

I would say considering your hardware spec, the end result is a bit disappointing. You would be much better off running a RS2 or k26/k27 hybrid turbo and proper mapping, because the rest of your car is pretty much RS2 spec.

[T2Andy]

90% of the spec came as a mtm package ,the car ran very lean with standard inj on that spec and I got the pump cheap ,after adding the exhaust it was like night and day so that was well worth the effort and cost ,it is a mtm ecu and soft wear and I know you will say it wants a custom map which it does but the afr are good just a little rich at the top after 5500k rpm which I can live with at the mo but as I might have 9 points by next week it's all pointless at the min lol

[loxxrider]

Yes. They upped the fuel pressure to 4 bar and downsized the injectors. Fuel flow remained unchanged.
3B injectors are 323 cc at 3 bar, AAN injectors are 280cc at 3 bar.
On 3B the FPR is 3 bar, on AAN it is 4 bar.
280cc injectors at 4 bar are like 323cc at 3 bar.
323cc injectors at 4 bar are like 373cc at 3 bar.


Check your facts before making such statements, because you are very wrong.
3B injectors at 4 bar will work fine upto ~340 hp.
And they have no issues opening/operating at that fuel pressure. Multiple cars running perfectly fine that way.
Also, 1 bar fuel pressure is not "a LOT".

So, cheapest way for that power on AAN/ABY is 3B injectors and k26 hybrid turbo + custom mapping.
You don't need anything else.
Then again, it is a lot of trouble for a 10% power increase.

No need to be so defensive. I know my facts just fine. I was running out of fuel on stock injectors on a 3b at 3 bar on a k24. I also ran out of fuel at only 6psi and 6500 RPMs on a Holset turbo. I know the limits of these injectors at 3 bar, so don't tell me to get my facts straight. I have the logs to back it up too.

Also, who said I was referring to 4 bar when I said "a lot"? Of course they will open at 4 bar. I meant more like 5 bar plus. They probably wouldn't perform well under those conditions (if at all) and probably would still struggle to make the power.

3B are OE part number 034.906.031, Bosch number 0-280-155-931.
Flow rate is 28.5lb/hr, 300cc/min, at 3bar... at 4 bar they would be 348cc/min and at 5 bar, 389cc

You need more injector for that power at 4 bar. At 5 bar they might make that power if you are 90% duty cycle or higher. Thats all theory there...but it backs up my experiences with my personal car and my personal tune and logs and everything.

Now who's got their facts straight? Where did your numbers come from?

[prj]

Also, who said I was referring to 4 bar when I said "a lot"? Of course they will open at 4 bar. I meant more like 5 bar plus. They probably wouldn't perform well under those conditions (if at all) and probably would still struggle to make the power.

They work perfectly fine at 4 bar.
Of course you will run out at 3 bar...
At 5 bar they start having severe latency issues.

3B are OE part number 034.906.031, Bosch number 0-280-155-931.
Flow rate is 28.5lb/hr, 300cc/min, at 3bar... at 4 bar they would be 348cc/min and at 5 bar, 389cc

Okay, got the number wrong.

You need more injector for that power at 4 bar. At 5 bar they might make that power if you are 90% duty cycle or higher. Thats all theory there...but it backs up my experiences with my personal car and my personal tune and logs and everything.

Incorrect. It works fine at 4 bar and no you don't run at 90% duty even then. Not at 320bhp anyway.

Now who's got their facts straight? Where did your numbers come from?

Off the top of my head, sorry if I got one number wrong.
Injector duty cycle comes from experience tuning various cars + logging opening duration from VAG-COM.
Hell, at 5 bar they are enough for a K26/K27 at 1.8 bar. But as I said, severe latency issues, so it is not feasible (yes, this is also from experience).

This is all because you don't run this much boost to redline. Especially not with the older turbos. You have a high midrange and then taper to redline. At 6000 rpm you won't be having more than 1.2-1.3 bar of boost with a small k26 hybrid and 3B injectors at 4 bar will be just enough for that.

I know you will say it wants a custom map which it does but the afr are good just a little rich at the top after 5500k rpm which I can live with at the mo

Saying that "AFR are fine" so "my tune is fine" is very wrong. AFR is just a tool to control combustion chamber temperature. Fitting odd chips means you are not running as much boost as you could and not enough timing, which means you are lots down on power.

[loxxrider]

OK so if we agree on these points, don't call my information incorrect. Its purely a mis-communication issue.

One needs to decrease boost severely at higher RPMs on these cars with injectors that small. That is something that wasn't really discussed. I can see how that power can be made at lower RPMs, but it can't be carried into the higher RPMs. Thats all I'm saying. So what if you make 340hp if you only peak there for a short time? My claim was more of the fact that they wont make that power up higher in the RPMs. So we can agree there.

I too experienced this on my car. Had to keep it down to about 15psi around 8k.