Cam position sensor

[Si Blythe]

I am convinced the cam position sensor is the culprit. Does anyone have one I could borrow or buy before Audi zap me for £150?

Cheers

Simon

[prj]

Why are you convinced?
Your fuel pump does not energize, ecu does not need the hall sensor signal to energize fuel pump.
You have three different people telling you this, why do you ignore it? :/

EDIT:
Nvm, spoke to Paul, he said your Hall Sensor wiring is messed up... so you need that too, but it's still not the "culprit".

[S2central.net]

@Simon - dont forget - as mentioned on the phione to your spark.... that CMP has nothing to do with fuel pump relay being activated. I gather the wiring/plug is damaged on the CMP but you have to get good G28 (rpm) signal before relay activates.

[UrS4boy]

G40 Cam Shaft Senor Info including PNs

And DIYs and PNs for the replacement plugs (or cheater ways using 3 pin VW O2 sensor plugs) etc. More than if info to solve G40 problems, *IF* the reader actually reads (and connects to the hyperlinks).

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22580.phtml

[Si Blythe]

Ok pen, what do I replace or fix? I seem to be getting conflicting information. The FP relay energizes when cranking not before. On cranking there is no fuel or spark. The CMP plug has disintegrated. The electrician spoke with Paul whilst at the car (thanks Paul) so what do I do now?

[S2central.net]

It seems like there are two faults here...

1 - FPrelay not energizing... need to establish if root cause is wiring, ECU, G28 or the relay itself

2 - Broken CMP... you probably wont see a code for this unless you crank the car for a long time. I was trying to tell the spark how to test it with an LED but as soon as he saw it was physically damaged then he lost interest... i can loan you a plug and play CMP tester that I built. PM me your address and post a pic here of the damaged plug if you can. Remember broken CMP will NOT prevent the fuel pump from energizing.

[UrS4boy]

Ok pen, what do I replace or fix? I seem to be getting conflicting information. The FP relay energizes when cranking not before. On cranking there is no fuel or spark. The CMP plug has disintegrated. The electrician spoke with Paul whilst at the car (thanks Paul) so what do I do now?

If the cam sensor connection is preventing a signal from an otherwise good cam sensor getting a signal to the ECU, the first thing would be to bodge a cam sensor connector fix using a three pin VW O2 sensor connector from a breaker yard. (Splice the "new" connector in). This is JUST to clear up the cam sensor connector issue.

You still need to find out IF you are getting a good G28 signal to the ECU, either because you have a bad G28 engine speed sensor, or the G4 and G28 connectors are swapped or you have some other G28 wiring issue. No G28 signal = no fuel pump energizing.

If you get the G40 cam sensor connector fixed, you can try spraying diesel starting fluid into the open throttle body (hose off) to see if the engine tries to start, i.e. has spark. If it does, then the G4 and G40 are good but you need to attend to the G28 engine speed sensor.

[prj]

The FP relay energizes when cranking not before.

Wait, suddenly the FP relay energizes?
You said it does not energize while cranking just a bit ago in your other thread.

So does it energize when cranking or doesn't it?

[Si Blythe]

The FP relay energizes only when I crank the engine, it does NOT energize with the key in position 1 ( o thought it was supposed to energize as soon as you turn the key to position 1)

[Gazjen]

It makes it very difficult to diagnose when you give conflicting information.

[UrS4boy]

The FP relay energizes only when I crank the engine, it does NOT energize with the key in position 1 ( o thought it was supposed to energize as soon as you turn the key to position 1)

You *really* need to listen and/or read better. We have been telling you for days now that *just* turning the key to Position 1 (Aka "run") does NOT energize the fuel pump. This is different than say a Jetta/Golf II that does energize the fuel pump at Position 1. In the case of these B3/B4 and C4 Audi UrS-cars, the fuel pump relay is controlled by the ECU and IS NOT ENERGIZED at Position 1. Only when the cranking speed exceeds 13 rpm does the ECU trigger the FP relay. You have to get this straight in your head. We have wasted days of helping you because of this misconception on your part.

Now the most likely issue is the bad cam position sensor connector and you have been given information on how to fix that problem.

[Si Blythe]

Guys I have read the posts and I know it shouldn't energize in position 1, that was made very clear very early on! I have been told I need a cam sensor, then I don't need one, I need a crank sensor, I don't need one! Then it is don't do this do that, I have gone to another electrician who has spoken to none other than Paul at s2central whilst at the car so as to give me a second opinion as people have intimated the first electrician was rubbish. I have reported the symptoms I have been faced with and thanked you all for your time trying to help only to effectively be sl***ed off. I don't remember "forcing" you to offer me your advice, and I never stated I was in anyway an expert or knowledgeable about the S2 electrical system!

Anyway once again thank you for your time and help folks it is genuinely appreciated. There is no need to post anymore guys the breaker is coming for the car in the morning. I don't have the heart to mess around with a 17 year old car anymore and I remember Corey Jones took the enjoyment out of my RS2 for me as well! It seems me an Audi just don't mix.

MODs please lock or delete this thread as you see fit.

[UrS4boy]

You are minutes away from fixing your car (the cam position sensor connector) and you are giving up because we got a little frustrated with trying to help you?

DON'T DO IT. Fix your cam sensor connector. And if that doesn't work send 150 quid to get a new one. The car is worth it.

Sorry about the harshness.

Keep up the fight. Don't give up.

[prj]

Guys I have read the posts and I know it shouldn't energize in position 1, that was made very clear very early on! I have been told I need a cam sensor, then I don't need one, I need a crank sensor, I don't need one! Then it is don't do this do that, I have gone to another electrician who has spoken to none other than Paul at s2central whilst at the car so as to give me a second opinion as people have intimated the first electrician was rubbish. I have reported the symptoms I have been faced with and thanked you all for your time trying to help only to effectively be sl***ed off. I don't remember "forcing" you to offer me your advice, and I never stated I was in anyway an expert or knowledgeable about the S2 electrical system!

You know, you give new information every time.

I quote you:

Guys the car is spot on, 300bhp, big AP brakes, full leather RS2 spec interior and SS exhaust. I had a qualified auto electrician diagnos the car for (I wouldn't bin an S2 on the off chance it maybe this maybe that) the relay doesn't energize when cranking, I have changed the crank sensor for a known good one too. The flywheel hasn't lost it's sensor as first thought, I have also tried a different ECU. I will change the cam sensor and probably the POS's too. I have triple checked all of the connectors and I may take the dash back out just in case it is a connection somewhere in there. Other than that what can I do? I have also checked every fuse wire etc etc. It does indicate a small problem as I drove the car home When I put it back together.

The bottom line is there will come a point when I just have to walk away - I cannot afford to start chasing a problem around the engine bay and then the rest of the car!

If you keep giving conflicting information there is no wonder no one can help you.
First you clearly say the FP relay is not energizing when cranking, now you say it does.

Then when people point out that you are giving out conflicting information, you get pissed?

And it seems you wanted to break the car anyway from the start. Or - at first you say you are breaking it, then you say you are not breaking it, now you are saying you are breaking it again.
Hell, you remind me of the missus during a certain time of the month :/

I really hope sanity kicks in - if your hall sensor loom is screwed and the relay DOES energize when you crank the car, just you have no injector pulses and no spark, then all you need is fix the loom/connector and your car will start.
If you crank it for a while, it'll also give a fault code indicating the sensor has failed.

[S2central.net]

@Simon... you did confuse a lot of people here, but as Dave puts it above - you are moments away from fixing it. Dont lose faith at this point.

I can loan you a handy little LED tester that plugs into the cable for camshaft sensor - that will tell you 100% whether it is dead or not. Please PM your address and I can post it tomorrow.