DSG vs Manual

[ross b]

Thought id bring a work discussion (which is quickly into a heated one might i add) onto here, it may have been discussed before but im a new kid on the block so forgive me. Basically me and a couple of die hard petrolhead colleagues argue that Audi along with a whole load of other prestige marques are killing the experience encountered when driving performance cars by making them automatic only. For us, this dulls the car, vastly reduces the drivers input, and makes the whole experience seem a tad two dimensional. Working for Audi we get to drive the cream of the crop on a regular basis which is slowly but surely becoming dominated with DSG/Stronic etc etc. The new rs4 for example, will be auto only whereas its predecessor this wasnt even an option! I fully understand the gearbox is ridiculously clever, smooth, reliable and a big step forward from auto's of old. I also understand that this gearbox can change better and quicker than i ever will be able to, and that certain engines lend themselves to this drivetrain better than others. 3.0v6 tdi's for instance. But this perhaps brings me to my point, the gearbox does it all a bit too well imo, removing me from being fully involved in driving the car that calls itself 'a drivers car'. Needless to say plenty colleagues dont share my views, and feel the extra money is well spent on the fancy pants gearboxes. Feel free to let it be known your thoughts and opinions on this...!

[Rusty]

Manufacturers are using only auto boxes to fudge the CO2 emissions. It's a complete joke. A DSG car is no more efficient than a manual in any given gear - it really annoys me that the tests have not been adjusted to make up for this glaringly obvious flaw in the process of CO2 witch hunting... don't even get started on the CO2 of cars vs. industry

Moving back to your argument. For a car that I would use every day, in city traffic, open road, motorway and suchlike, I can see that a DSG offers the refinement of an auto with the option of choosing my own gear, for as long as the electronics allow and so I would consider one for a more relaxing driving experience. However, for a car that I used on the odd occasion I would want a manual as it's not just the speed of shifting but the art of driving a car with 3 pedals and a gear stick that means as much to me as the dynamics of the car itself. I like older cars because they have foibles that have to be worked around to get the best from them, so I feel that I'm making a difference. Modern cars don't really have this, from the tyres all the way through to the hand and foot controls, they've had the personality removed from them to make them a better product but in doing so, there isn't anywhere near the same character to cars nowadays... shame really but such is the price of 'progress'.

It is very interesting how a car that was derided for lacking personality, steering feel and ride quality now has much more of all three than mos modern offerings... I refer, of course, to our beloved S2

[rj scotty]

Getting a manual gear change just right on the exit of a corner is my favourite part of driving the s2. long live the manual gear box! but current trends suggest that won't happen

[imdstig]

I have both.

I really do prefer the manual to the DSG however. Even though the CQ is slower than my GTI, it is so much more fun to drive. In fact since I picked up my Audi 3 months ago I have driven my GTI maybe twice. There is nothing wrong with DSG it shifts really well and way faster than I could ever shift. But it lacks that fully connected experience I get with a manual. Also the downshifts just aren't right yet with DSG boxes.

I think in the end it really comes down to personal preference. There is a certain skill involved in driving a manual, once you can master it.

But sadly it looks like manuals are becoming a thing of the past and more and more cars are switching to DSG type gearboxes.

[Error404]

Manufacturers are using only auto boxes to fudge the CO2 emissions. It's a complete joke. A DSG car is no more efficient than a manual in any given gear - it really annoys me that the tests have not been adjusted to make up for this glaringly obvious flaw in the process of CO2 witch hunting...

This is the main reason - "economy".

However my mate, a time served, die hard petrol head has just bought an A6 TDi auto, as his daily, as he says he spends over an hour a day in traffic and its just easier. There is no fun to be had on the drive to work.
On the flip side this has given him a chance to garage his R32 and prepare to fit a GT30 so its not all bad.

[macspring]

My tuppence.

It's personal preferences / experiences that dictates each person own opinion, and so obviously everyone will have a different opinion.

I had a DSG Golf GTI and loved it. Drive it as manual - change up with the right paddle on the steering wheel, seamless changes and no lifting of the throttle. Change down with a backward flick of the gear lever. Took me a good few weeks of daily driving to discover how I should / could drive it to maximum effect with the DSG.

Sold the Golf to buy an S2 Avant. The noise and feel of the engine, together with the perfect traction is addictive.

Dream car would be the S2 with a DSG gearbox.

For around town, my urS6 auto driven like a manual is very enjoyable.

i.e. second / third / drive.

An R32 with a turbo sounds like a great combination.

Not enough money to have a stable of diffent cars to perfectly suit each different of type of journey.

[rynaqui]

Fully agree, a driver's car isn't so much a "driver's car" at all. Cars have become so boring and predictable it's ridiculous. And as for fuel economy, that's bull****. Automatics tend to shift down, up and all over the place as soon as you change your foot's position on the pedal creating really weird noises of high revs then no revs at all They are in no way better to driver, safer to driver, or more efficient.

As for safety, you tend to take your mind off of actually driving because the car is doing half the job for you!