Audi RS2 owners: problem with rubbing issue from the rear?

[Harmon Rabb]

Never got any answers in the thread below. This part of the forum is open to everyone not logged in. So I thought it was worth a shot to try and post here.

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64959

The issue is not solved yet. I took a picture of the part that the tire could be rubbing against. There are not much space between the tire on the inside.

I refurbished the calibers a while ago fixing the typical problems that occur on Porsche calibers of that vintage.They should be as good as new. I might have a problem with warped brake discs. Balanced the tires last week so that I can take that out of the equation. I have a squeezing sound coming from the brakes in the rear. Especially the right side. I can still feel that there still are some vibrations. The thing is I can also hear some rubbing that reminds of rubber. Not only metal to metal sound. That makes me wondering if it could be that the tire rub against the part in the pictures. It feels like there is less space between right and left but that could be imaginable. Both the left and rear tires have the same kind of wear. I have also thought of doing another wheel alignment. However that might not solve the rubbing issue against the part in question. If there is a rubbing issue. I don´t know that for sure yet.

The problem is when i turn to the left in slow speed. Like driving around a roundabout or turning left around a corner. Then I can hear a undefined rubbing sound. That sound was there before I refurbished the brake calibers and it was there when I had the 16" winter rims on the car. The main reason for refurbishing the brake calibers was that I had a sound coming from the brakes caused by corrosion. That went away, but the other sound is still there. I thought they where the same source. Guess they where not.

Any ideas?

The tires in question is Continental Sport 225/45/17 on OEM Cup rims.

[madpugger]

Wheel bearing?

[macspring]

Not the right cure but use a thin spacer on the two rims to move out the wheel, even though it shouldn't need it with oem 17" rims. What is the ET of the rims ?

Also, it is a very thick metal bar, but it is bent in some way, or maybe the top or lower wishbone is bent ?

Use something from your garage or house with a similar curve to the good rear suspension, and use it to "measure" the rubbing suspension to see if they are identical.

The answer should be there if you study it for long enough.

[Harmon Rabb]

Wheel bearing?

I have also thought of wheel bearing, driveshaft, that the metal in the bar somehow has been bent.

Not the right cure but use a thin spacer on the two rims to move out the wheel, even though it shouldn't need it with oem 17" rims. What is the ET of the rims ?

Also, it is a very thick metal bar, but it is bent in some way, or maybe the top or lower wishbone is bent ?

Use something from your garage or house with a similar curve to the good rear suspension, and use it to "measure" the rubbing suspension to see if they are identical.

The answer should be there if you study it for long enough.

I don´t know the ET of the OEM 17" Cup rims or the OEM 16" rims for that matter.

The Porsche workshop that did refurbish my calibers suggested a thin spacer and had one for me to borrow. Unfortunately it did not fit.

I had another workshop keep the car for a day that work more on Audis of the RS2s vintage. I demonstrated the problem to one of the mechanics and in the afternoon they had not sourced the problem. They had noticed that the front discs where warped. They took care of that problem. The mechanic that ended up working on the car had no clue what to look for. You could clearly hear that the sound is coming from the rear. I talked to him when I was going to pick the car up and we drove a test drive. At first it was silent. He was driving to slow I guess. Don´t ask why the first mechanic did not do a test drive together with the other mechanic that ended up with the car. It´s beyond me. It was he who said that the problem was still there when I called and asked how it all went. They will get another chance next week. I think they will start looking if the rear discs are warped and take care of that and go from there. I can´t see how that bar can be bent. But I guess they might have to look at that also. It´s not much space between either rear tire and that bar on the inside (top corner of the tire).

To bad I am not a mechanic myself. Just a thinking man. It is things like this that can drive you mad.

[RS2 driver]

On OEM cup rims the ET can be read on the inside of one of the spokes, it should state "ET 55".

If the tyre is rubbing agains any part of the suspension it should be visible on that part, i.e. scratch or mark. A visual check of distance between suspension parts and tyre sould give a clue. Otherwise fitting a piece of thin cardboard by a couple of strips at the suspected area might help locating if the tyre is actually touching the suspension when driving the car.

Have the brake caliper been correctly tighten after refurbishment?

[Harmon Rabb]

ET 55 rings a bell in my head.

When looking closely it is hard to tell if there are any marks on the part. It seems to be a bit lighter on both sides from memory when looking last week when I had the tires balanced. But that could come from "sandblasting" as well as it is so close. I put an red arrow pointing at the where I believe it could touch the tires (first post). It´s hard to say if there are any marks by looking at that picture.

I take for granted that the calibers has been correctly tighten after the refurbishment. Mind that the sound in question was there before the refurbishment took place and it was there when I had 16" winter rims (OEM D90).

[macspring]

Harmon,

I'm no one to talk, but it sounds like you need a new garage.

Surely they might be someone near you in Sweden that could look at it with you, or can recommend a better garage.

If there is, now is the time to step forward for the cause.

Kind regards.

[Harmon Rabb]

Harmon,

I'm no one to talk, but it sounds like you need a new garage.

Surely they might be someone near you in Sweden that could look at it with you, or can recommend a better garage.

If there is, now is the time to step forward for the cause.

Kind regards.

It was Audi that recommended this workshop to me in the first place as they acknowledge that they had more experience of the car. To tell you the truth I have not been entirely happy with it at all times. But they are the garage that has most experience with the older Audi S/RS around here. I also own a Porsche and have let a local Porsche workshop take care of the RS2 for me normally as a result. I had some issues with the speedometer and figured that it was better to turn to workshop that are more familiar with the cars than the Porsche workshop. I let them have a go and try to figure out what was making the rubbing sound. If this don´t work out I will turn to another workshop that has a good reputation.

[scillyisles]

Interesting.
Normally when incorrect tyres are fitted to the RS2 - they rub on the front in a similar fashion to what you are experiencing on the rear. Mostly this occurs with cars that have had modern 245/40ZR17 tyres fitted because the owners and some Audi dealers/garages are not aware that the OEM Dunlop SP8000 tyre was way undersized and was actually 225 section width.
Two things spring to mind :
1. Your rear tracking/suspension setup is not correct - even using correctly sized tyres the fit is very close and if the rear suspension is not setup correctly then the tyres will rub.
2. Not all 225/45ZR17 tyres are recommended for 17 wheels. You need to check with the manaufacturer. In my experience Continental tyres have softer more compliant sidewalls which will bulge more on a 17 rim size. This could also be contributing to the problem.

[madpugger]

If your tyre is rubbing on the Hub Carrier (this is the arm that comes up to the outside of the upper wishbone), then suspension setup will make no difference what-so-ever. The only thing that can alter to make this rub (apart from wheel/tyre combo) is the wheel bearing. The arm is fixed in relation to the hub and therefore wheel/tyre. This means that if you jack the car up and turn the wheels you should also hear/feel the rubbing.

The wheel bearing can make a difference if it is A: The wrong type, allowing the hub to be too far in, or B: worn, allowing the hub to ever so slightly be not in line with the hub carrier, thus allowing the tyre to rub on the arm of the hub carrier.

My avant was fine with 235/40/18s on the rear but then rubbed massively with 235/40/18s when relpaced. This is due to the two tyres being different makes (first was Conti Sport, 2nd were Eagle F1). However you say that your winter tyres also made the same noise? Would it be possible that it is the handbrake making the noise and not the tyre? Does it sound any different when you lightly pull on the handbrake when driving? Remember that the RS2 handbrake is actually shoes inside the disk and not part of the calipers.

I'd try:

Driving with handbrake lightly on to see if the noise changes.
Jack the car and spin the wheels, does it still rub?
With the car jacked up, feel for play in the bearing, also spin the wheel and hold the spring - this can help you find a worn wheel bearing but can take practice!
Borrow/buy a pair of wheel spacers to try.

Mike

[veneto rs2]

I never encountered this kind of problem even when I had 245 tires now it's been ages that I run on 225 and never got any issue with them (currently Yoko Advan)

I second madpugger, probably the culprit it's somewhere else.
If your tire it's rubbing on the arm you should notice easily where due to erasing of dirt and paint on the arm?
Try to use some crayon marking on the area and look if any comes off when driving around, I'm surprised that the garage people did'nt do that first thing.

Stefano

[simon20vq]

I had similar and it was the wheel bearing.
If the sound is less or not there at all when you turn the other way thus taking the load off the wheel you have your answer.
ET from memory is 52.

[RS2 driver]

If no abnormal play can be noticed in any of the suspension of brake parts I tend to agree with “simon20vq” that the wheel bearing must be the origin of the noise.

FYI my RS2 is running 245/40 R17 on all four, Toyo in front and Nokian aft, without any issues. Tires are even having the MFS rim protection bulge, although not completely sure if the aft tires are having that on the inner side as well.

[Harmon Rabb]

I bought Continental Sport (XL) because of the performance and weight of the car. They should have stiffer sidewalls. The previous owner fitted 245/40/17 tires on the rims and the car never felt right to me. Never seemed to have any issues with rubbing then.

I was under the impression that wheel alignment don´t change the distance to the hub carrier. Was thinking at some point that maybe the toe-out in the rear is a bit wrong. But if the hub is fixed that might not change a thing. The same can be said about negative camber i guess.

The suspension is all standard. Let say that a damper or spring would be a bit out of shape. Would it affect rubbing issues. Not saying that there are any indication of that. Just for the sake of the discussion.

I tested to use the handbrake before and it did not affect the sound. The garage did not feel any play in the bearing when they had the car up on the lift. When spinning the wheel when the car is up in the air, it does not touch the hub

Could the problem be a warped rear disc or something not working as it should with the calibers?

You can see the picture in the first post for marks. I looked closely and even if its a bit lighter where the red arrow is on the picture I can´t say that the tire is rubbing for sure. When looking at the both the left and rear tire it looks like it could rub against the hub. But it could also be normal inside tire wear.

The thing is you can hear a rubbing sound when the car is almost in straight line keeping the wheel more to the left. Then there are not so much load on the tire. The sound get a bit louder when you have driven a while and slows down. I was thinking that maybe the air in the tires expands as the tire gets warmer. I was also thinking that it could be a warped disc that get more warped as the heat built up in the disc. That would explain the squeezing sound from the brakes.

simon20vq: I keep that in mind that your problems where caused by the wheel bearing.

[madpugger]

The shock cannot make it rub the hub carrier even if its broken in 2.

If the noise changes on and off load, it is very likely the wheel bearing as I suggested in post 2. You will hear a bearing long before you can feel play in it.

If you are convinced its the tyre rubbing, try a spacer or other wheels.

If your tracking is out, then you may experience increased tyre squeal with the contact with the road.

As said before though. Caster. Camber. Tow. Broken shock. None can make the tyre hit the hub carrier. This can only be that the tyre is too big (height or width or both), wrong offset wheel, a worn bearing possibly or the hub carrier itself being bent.

Is the noise there at all speeds? Does it get better or worse with distance (heat)?