larger nozzle on stock boost

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • K7ERG
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Mar 2004
    • 1711
    • Country: Scotland

    #1

    larger nozzle on stock boost

    I am planning on changing the diesel nozzle to larger one soon. Stock are 0.216 going to 0.232. Being new to diesel tuning I am wondering if it will be ok to run with these for a bit before altering boost etc. I found a guide about installing and recommends the engine should be cold. Which rules out travelling to my nearest rolling road.

    Any suggestion?
    Audi A6 AEL 5cyl Quattro breaking.
    Audi A5 3.0tdi Quattro Stage 2
    07947385043
  • byd1380
    S2Forum Addict
    • Aug 2009
    • 269
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #2
    Not sure which ones you're putting in, I ran the ones from the 151bhp Transporter with no issues, I also rang a set of .232 Bosio ones in my 110tdi, can get a bit lumpy on idle, just adjusted injection quantity with vagcom.

    Ivan

    Comment

    • prj
      S2Forum Zealot
      • Mar 2010
      • 6308
      • Country: Estonia

      #3
      Installing larger nozzles is pretty much like installing bigger injectors.
      It'll run rich. The engine you have does not have any kind of O2 sensor, which could provide closed loop fueling, so it'll just keep running rich.

      Without a remap, and at the same boost level you will:
      * Significantly increase EGT, which can lead to engine failure.
      * Have horrible fuel economy.

      Even if you just increase boost, you'd still be injecting too much all the time. The only time it would be remotely alright, would be when it's on full boost.
      Doing it correctly requires recalibration of the pump voltage map, or recalculation of IQ using the newer nozzles and readjusting every other map in the ECU that has to do with determining IQ plus SOI.
      http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

      Comment

      • AndyP
        S2Forum Zealot
        • Feb 2004
        • 6049
        • Country: England

        #4
        Originally posted by byd1380
        Not sure which ones you're putting in, I ran the ones from the 151bhp Transporter with no issues, I also rang a set of .232 Bosio ones in my 110tdi, can get a bit lumpy on idle, just adjusted injection quantity with vagcom.

        Ivan
        Are these the nozzles you used?

        http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Transporte...item3f15c9afed

        These are a direct replacement on an AEL to give a better spray pattern and better MPG right?
        sigpic
        1991 Audi S2 3B - 2.5 Stroker engine
        1997 A6 2.5TDi quattro avant - C4
        1976 RD250E / 350LC cafe racer

        Comment

        • spink
          S2Forum Freak
          • Jul 2003
          • 4382
          • Country: England

          #5
          sorry mispost

          Comment

          • K7ERG
            S2Forum Extremist
            • Mar 2004
            • 1711
            • Country: Scotland

            #6
            Bosio pp502s will be going in shortly.
            Audi A6 AEL 5cyl Quattro breaking.
            Audi A5 3.0tdi Quattro Stage 2
            07947385043

            Comment

            • AndyP
              S2Forum Zealot
              • Feb 2004
              • 6049
              • Country: England

              #7
              I went for Bosio's in the end, too many Bosch copies around for my liking. I went for PP520's from Kerma, great price and arrived in a couple of days.

              Not fitted them yet, but post up again when you've done yours and let me know how it went.
              sigpic
              1991 Audi S2 3B - 2.5 Stroker engine
              1997 A6 2.5TDi quattro avant - C4
              1976 RD250E / 350LC cafe racer

              Comment

              • byd1380
                S2Forum Addict
                • Aug 2009
                • 269
                • Country: Northern Ireland

                #8
                I had a A6 Tdi Quattro (C4), I fitted the Bosch ones from a 151bhp transporter, it did help a bit, I then sold the car and bought a tdi 110bhp Seat Ibiza, I then fitted the Bosch ones to it, but needed more power, I bought PP502's and they gave a good increase over the Bosch ones, so much so I needed a new clutch. Good luck and keep us posted.

                Comment

                • K7ERG
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 1711
                  • Country: Scotland

                  #9
                  Will do mate
                  Audi A6 AEL 5cyl Quattro breaking.
                  Audi A5 3.0tdi Quattro Stage 2
                  07947385043

                  Comment

                  • 5cylinderman
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 367
                    • Country: Ireland

                    #10
                    In my opinion using larger nozzles will not make you run "richer".
                    The injection pump decides the fuel quantity injected, not your bigger injectors. Your choice of Bosio size is a good one. Injectors just atomise the diesel that the pump sends to them.
                    What will happen is that with larger nozzles the fuel will be injected slightly faster so if your timing is not adjusted to perfection you will put a larger load on your pistons and rods (faster rate of injection could inherently "advance" injection timing).
                    The later Transporters (151 bhp smaller diameter but 5 hole type?) used different nozzles but the their pumps were designed to use higher pressures. Stay away from those on your motor.
                    Before you raise your boost I would suggest that you carefully check your dynamic timing. You may need to adjust your fuel quantity to give a smooth idle.
                    I would suggest removing injectors while the engine is hot insofar as I have removed countless dozens of them successfully over the years without issue.
                    Be very careful that the seat in the head is spotless before refitting and use new copper washers every time. Use a small amount of engine oil on the bolt threads and under the convex clamp bolt washer. Torque 'em down with a decent torque wrench too.

                    Comment

                    • K7ERG
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 1711
                      • Country: Scotland

                      #11
                      Cheers for the info.
                      Audi A6 AEL 5cyl Quattro breaking.
                      Audi A5 3.0tdi Quattro Stage 2
                      07947385043

                      Comment

                      • prj
                        S2Forum Zealot
                        • Mar 2010
                        • 6308
                        • Country: Estonia

                        #12
                        Originally posted by 5cylinderman
                        In my opinion using larger nozzles will not make you run "richer".
                        The injection pump decides the fuel quantity injected, not your bigger injectors. Your choice of Bosio size is a good one. Injectors just atomise the diesel that the pump sends to them.
                        What will happen is that with larger nozzles the fuel will be injected slightly faster so if your timing is not adjusted to perfection you will put a larger load on your pistons and rods (faster rate of injection could inherently "advance" injection timing).
                        The later Transporters (151 bhp smaller diameter but 5 hole type?) used different nozzles but the their pumps were designed to use higher pressures. Stay away from those on your motor.
                        Before you raise your boost I would suggest that you carefully check your dynamic timing. You may need to adjust your fuel quantity to give a smooth idle.
                        I would suggest removing injectors while the engine is hot insofar as I have removed countless dozens of them successfully over the years without issue.
                        Be very careful that the seat in the head is spotless before refitting and use new copper washers every time. Use a small amount of engine oil on the bolt threads and under the convex clamp bolt washer. Torque 'em down with a decent torque wrench too.
                        Yes, thinking about it, you are right.
                        Timing needs a remap, since SOI will be completely out though, and you'll hit PCP before TDC.
                        I was thinking of a common rail system I think, where larger injectors will inject more.

                        This is a mechanical system.
                        Last edited by prj; 3 May 2012, 09:18.
                        http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                        Comment

                        • K7ERG
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 1711
                          • Country: Scotland

                          #13
                          If pump is able to supply the fuel to the larger nozzles will it not achieve more power without remap with slight increase in boost like 0.4 bar. I already have a chip in there which is working good on my setup. It was showing when on the rolling road it was running a bit lean and was needing fuel. But since then changed the fuel filter and it was clogged. Engine pulls well as it is.

                          If the pump needs altered can this not be altered via vagcom.
                          Audi A6 AEL 5cyl Quattro breaking.
                          Audi A5 3.0tdi Quattro Stage 2
                          07947385043

                          Comment

                          • prj
                            S2Forum Zealot
                            • Mar 2010
                            • 6308
                            • Country: Estonia

                            #14
                            The reason for fitting larger nozzles on a mechanical system is not to get more fuel.
                            It is to lower EGT's by being able to inject the same amount of fuel in a shorter duration.

                            But you need to recalibrate SOI completely, best done on a dyno. You will be putting a lot of stress on the engine if PCP occurs before TDC!

                            Forget VAG-COM, you need to remap the ECU.
                            And you will actually get LESS power if you don't recalibrate SOI.

                            P.S.
                            I have a tip. First think of what you want to achieve.
                            Then think what the limitations are.
                            Every change has to be done with an understanding of WHY you are doing it. Whether it is a mechanical change or a software change.

                            Also, fitting off the shelf "chips" when you have changed components around is a horrible idea. The ECU has to be remapped live according to the setup fitted.
                            Last edited by prj; 3 May 2012, 14:48.
                            http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                            Comment

                            • K7ERG
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 1711
                              • Country: Scotland

                              #15
                              One problem I have is no one likes mapping these engines or I can't find anyone. What is require to live map this ecu?
                              Audi A6 AEL 5cyl Quattro breaking.
                              Audi A5 3.0tdi Quattro Stage 2
                              07947385043

                              Comment

                              Working...