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Taking the 5th (Re-purposing the B4 Snub Bracket for B3 Use)

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  • Taking the 5th (Re-purposing the B4 Snub Bracket for B3 Use)

    The 5th in this case being the much un-loved snub-mount receiver bracket, a.k.a. the 5th mount. Unlike the stock arrangement, the mod allows you to then employ the snub itself in both the up (accel.) and down (de-acccel.) directions, which is going to help eliminate drive-line shunt (the clunk-pause-clunk experienced while underway, when you get off and then on the gas), make life easier for your transmission-mounts; and improve gear-shift ability. This mod is a walk in the park (wrecking-yard actually). I love this mod, perhaps you will too, it's quick, easy, cheap, effective & invisible. Did this years ago and took no photos. Installed subject bracket with a long fat and soft full cylindrical poly snub of Mance's. Stumbled onto this E-bay photo recently & here we are. The bracket I used came from a 1993 B4 V6 sedan (see photo). I note, there are today other Audi brackets, both steel and alloy, which with some persuasion, may also work equally as well; as more suitable substitutes for the original B3 item? See previous write up here:

    https://www.audiworld.com/forums/aud...to-b3-2834878/

    Audi B4 snub mount receiver bracket.png

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by Lago Blue; Today, 14:00.

  • #2
    Reminds me I still have the SQ snubmount bracket to fit on mine
    Greg

    S2Forum.com Administrator & Webmaster

    '93 Coupe with a few tweeks

    Comment


    • #3
      Greg_S,

      Just in case your S "to-do" list is getting a little short these days, I would guess this mod along with the addition of All-Road transmission mounts and the simple bilzcat1 short-shifter (which you may already have) would together likely make almost as much improvement to shifting a 6-speed, as those same 3 mods plus the stick-linkage alloy coupling bushing upgrade does for shifting the 5-speed!

      When you're under there checking and/or re-setting your snub, you can push/pull up and down on the tail of the tranny and see how the engine mounts act as a fulcrum over which the long-axis of the engine / tranny must rock with every on-off-on of the gas pedal; and appreciate how the elimination of vertical slack at the tranny-mounts, that the All-roads will provide compared to stock; will certainly ease gear- shifting.

      Shifting so smooth that you find yourself just doing it effortlessly and unconsciously.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah I need to have a look at it. My exhaust clacks the subframe a bit due to the movement already which annoys me. I hadn’t heard of the all road transmission mounts. Any info this and parts needed?

        i did have a short shift fitted many moons ago but have since removed it.
        Greg

        S2Forum.com Administrator & Webmaster

        '93 Coupe with a few tweeks

        Comment


        • #5
          a) The shape of this snub (1st photo) mimics the one I have (max diameter over entire length vs stock), however I suspect mine is softer, which I prefer. The beauty of the above bracket in my view, beyond the above comment is due to its' flat and deep upper and lower interior surfaces. On first contact, it only engages a very small proportion (an actual line of contact vs stock almost point contact) of the poly snub's circumference, as opposed to with a strictly round tube type receiver bracket's total contact. These two in combination result in an initially very soft touch, but in addition, as opposed to the stock snub-rubber shape, this full-bodied snub more rapidly progresses to then engage a great deal more snub material faster, with any increased pressure on the two components; without a great deal of additional movement, quite smart. This rapid rising-rate response I think is key to its' soft but sure effectiveness. On-line photos of crumbled stock foam snubs and this combo's attention-free longevity bare out it's effectiveness.


          b) Adapting these All-Road trans mounts (I note today they are in use on VWs and Skodas) is another of Mance's clever mods that may not have travelled much outside the US (2nd, 3rd & 4th photos). His write-ups (he actually converted from B4 to B5 to All-Road mounts in short order):

          P/Ns: ...

          Extra parts:...

          All-Road Xmsn mounts driving impressions...

          c) After replacing the trans mounts be sure to re-centre your snub vertically, takes just a minute.


          c) But if your not using them already, a cheaper faster possible fix for what may indeed be exhaust / sub-frame interference (see also comment below) might be in the re-hanging of your system on 3 of these VW P/N 171 253 147 G vs the stock rubber bands (2 last photos below, last photo shows use on my B4):

          You can distort these some, but as the length of the chain won't change, they will suspend your system a little higher than stock, possibly giving you sufficient clearance.

          They are so sturdy, I heated them in boiling water and put them on using necessary verbal persuasion, liquid detergent as lube, after cushioning and jacking the system slightly higher, closer to its' back end; and having very carefully un-bent all the little factory hanger hook-tab ends.

          Sub-frame interference (or maybe with the rear CV joint OD?(!)) or not, this is just a sensible preventative maintenance mod.

          Apikol snub B3 & 4.pngAudi All-Road Xmsn mount pair, front & back-sides.pngAudi All-Road Xmsn mount back-side label.pngAudi All-Road Xmsn mount w cover off.pngVW chain-filled exhaust hanger.pngVW chain-filled exhaust hanger on B4.png
          Last edited by Lago Blue; Today, 14:15.

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          • #6
            Thanks Lago Blue !

            If anyone has one of these snub brackets I would love to give it a go, drop me a PM

            I think this is the part number: http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/8A0199335

            Comment


            • #7
              Your quite welcome sir. Yes that's it. P/N: 8A0 199 335. Mit typisch Deutscher effizienz, dies ist ein "motor halter". Noch ein photo:

              Audi B4 snub mount receiver bracket other side.png

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the tips. I’m off to have a read of those threads. I will try the rubbers too, it expect the exhaust will need to be physically modified to get it right aswell but that will have to wait until I’ve got some use now she is back on the road
                Greg

                S2Forum.com Administrator & Webmaster

                '93 Coupe with a few tweeks

                Comment


                • #9
                  Would these Allroad trans mounts also be suitable for the rear diff?
                  Any height differences noticed compared to stock item?
                  Audi S2 -1994 | 280 HP | 3" SS turboback | Apexi Power Intake | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
                  http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Allroad mounts are taller than stock, about 10mm. They won’t work on one side of the rear diff (coupe) since the mount orientation is inverted.

                    I have a good used pair here if anyone wants?
                    Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
                    Indigo ABY coupé
                    Imola B6 S4 Avant

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I see, thanks for the info Error.
                      Audi S2 -1994 | 280 HP | 3" SS turboback | Apexi Power Intake | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
                      http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        k.alle,

                        Re: "Allroads ...suitable for the rear diff?"

                        That was exactly my question on receiving them, having ordered them for use on the trans, I immediately wanted to eyeball the rear-end with the car on the hoist. As Error says, they are taller, (and really just a bit too tall) but with some muscle, I simply twisted the difff and pushed them into place (the horror!) and so have also run a pair there ever since. I thought I would certainly get noise/damage the mounts maybe, as I already had that (too!) hard purple poly diff mount, but haven't.

                        Should I take them out and somehow "shorten" their installed height (I think that may be do-able), yes probably. Would I recommend others simply do exactly what I have done on the rear diff with these, no. I do think it worth exploring further, but B5 mounts (are they any stronger than originals?) are probably cheaper, likely install easier, may be almost as effective here (could they be shimmed to be "tighter") I don't know, I've not tried those. Perhaps one of each type would work here, but that may offer no advantage? Technically I think I should "soften" all 3 of these (as currently installed) diff mounts, but practically I haven't had a need to.

                        Certainly the combo of B4 snub receiver, Mance's soft fat full-bodied snub, 4 x All-roads (plus the purple hockey puck), and Arm-Stops (8 of those) all round; really feels nice to drive. All those locations are otherwise opening and closing, absolutely with every torque reversal; and some at other times as I'm sure you can imagine and perhaps have felt. I don't miss all that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Porsche 915 / 930 engine mounts are another good option for an OEM rubber isolated but significantly stiffer gearbox / diff mount. These are near-as-dammit the same installed height as OEM. The through-bolt is 12mm not 10mm. The outer circumference needs very slightly reshaping to fit the Audi subframes. These are what I run.

                          s-l300.jpg
                          Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
                          Indigo ABY coupé
                          Imola B6 S4 Avant

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Error404 ,

                            Thank you sir. That does sound like a easier/cheaper/better idea for the rear diff. You gotta love a part whose applicability stretches across 3 decades, that in itself is a testament to simply brilliant design.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you both Lago Blue and Error404 for the replies.

                              Error, do you perhaps have a part no for those mounts?
                              Whats your verdict on them?
                              And what kind of circumference job is needed? Just skim some off in a lathe?
                              Audi S2 -1994 | 280 HP | 3" SS turboback | Apexi Power Intake | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
                              http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

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