project NA-200 bhp

[MGaz]

right.. i've set my sights on something..

i'm hoping to somehow find 200bhp form my 5 cylinder Coupe Quattro, 'without' going turbo.

At the moment i'm running a 2.5 Ltr GTi engineering 5 Cylinder 'non turbo' engine with bigger valves and ported polished head.

The car is running a standard camshaft, & still using Bosch K-Jet CIS & although I've not had the car on the rollers yet, I'm told it's 'suppose' to develop 170bhp & 180lb/ft on standard exhaust and induction, while still using good old Bosch K-jet CIS.

Will 200bhp be possible? or am i ******1ng in the wind with this idea?

Anyway, here's the CQ



And here's the engine.. (before it was fitted)

[MGaz]

oh,.. oops!

here's the engine.

[rj scotty]

I'n not to familiar with the 5 pot in its Na form, However I think it may be possible.

Ford pinto 2.1 4 pot (8V) will hit 200 ish with persuasion

cheers

rich

[stiglet]

Try Cams first, should give you a little more.

I used to have that engine in my type 85cq before James, awesome bit of kit. Would be be good to see it hit 200

[quattro]

To be honest i thought of doing this when i had a NA 10v and you soon realise that it will cost similar to 'just poting' a turbo engine in, but be warned you then catch IT, then IT spreds, IT gets worse as you get more, IT just never enough! IT's the turbo bug!

For 200bhp IMO you will need as follows.

Free flowing air filter with cold air feed.
A better inlet manifold.
Larger polished throttle body.
increased fueling.
A better exhaust manifold.
2.5" no cat exhaust.
Fast road/Rally cam shafts.
Adjustable cam pulley
Solid lifters.
8000rpm red line (to make full use of the cam)
Then you need to think about the oil pump!
and adjust the mixture of the k-jet.

This sould get you close, i think it would sound mental on full chat.

[aspro]

Hi There

You need to look at the 7A engine if you want to get 200 BHP without spending mega bucks. There is a chap called Nogin on www.audifans.net who is probabley getting near that from his 20v 7A B3 80 Quattro. He has spent very little money doing this. He also does engine conversions and is very capable at fitting 7A's 3B's ABY's AAN's etc

Mods to get good performance out of a 7A 20V

Polished and port inlet side of engine
Fit tubular manifold and correct ECU
Fit free flowing exhaust
check that all the vaccum lines / breathers are in realy good shape.
MAKE SURE YOUR TIMING AND IGNITION SYSTEM IS SPOT ON. (THIS IS CRITICAL GOOD TIMING = MORE POWER)
Just run the standard cams / hotter cams may provide even more BHP but it always moves the power curve up the rev range.

[anton]

i seem to remember james' engine had solid lifters already so a 285 or something cam should be good with a raised rpm limiter, then as said before a 2.5" exhaust and a cone with cold air feed and i'd be fairly confident you'll be around the 200 mark. i think the cis will be the only thing stopping you....if that is the case since your not running boost i dont see why a cheep as chips mega-squirt wouldnt sort that out

can hear the boos from here, but hey, i've only heard bad things about mega squirt on FI cars. either way i dont think you'll need it personally...

Ant

[aspro]

If you did add EFI management into the mix a listed above then you should easily reach 200.

I built a 180 - 200 bhp 16V coupe a few years back with megasquirt. Most people dont like it but i realy enjoyed installing it a tuning it.

[Acidburn]

Nogin's car is getting a bit mental, using the lower ratio gearboxes etc and now nitrous

You should be able to get 200 it all depends how you want it, if the cars going to be a daily driver with some of the mods up the top sounds like it might end up un-drivable, if its a track car then it could be good.

Cheapest and easiest way - nitrous

more harder route - try some of the above techniques etc, the k-jet can be set up by a few places individually for each injector.

"if" you have a spare engine out the car and time/money and a decent exhaust welder you could try and have the flanges cut off a 20v tubular manifold and have new one's welded on and fit the tubular to the 10v, its what I was looking at doing a while ago as should not be too bad, easiest thing to do to see if this is possible is by and exhaust gasget for both the 10v and 20v and see how close they are.

tbh your probably find anything over 170-180 unless properly set up and the engine blue-printed will be a pita to drive on the road.

[stiglet]

tbh your probably find anything over 170-180 unless properly set up and the engine blue-printed will be a pita to drive on the road.

The engine is currently (or should be) 180 with a rediculous amount of torque. It is an absolute pleasure drive

I recon cams will get you 190 at least. All the torque on that engine is really low down, i doubt you'll loose too much driveability getting it there.

[Rusty]

Jogi730 used to have a TSR 2.5 or 2.6 KV in his typ85 90q and had about 195bhp out of it. It's all about the torque with 2v/cyl engines though so rather than goin nuts on cams and ruining the engine, get a setup that works as one and you'll much prefer it rather than a peaky lump that's fighting physics all the time. 180bhp on a milder cam would be better IMO. If you need power then 4V/cyl is a better starting block...

K-jet is fine for the fuel, it just wees it in but think about something better for the sparks, Megasquirt is a cheap way of doing things, run it with coil per cylinder coil packs and replace the dizzy with something either optical or hall sensor based. The classic option is K-star, Jogi had this on his from memory.

Pinto can be coaxed to 200+bhp but it's a lot of work. 170/180 is achievable for most.

Oh and good luck, it'll be a right beast when you're done

[MGaz]

To be honest i thought of doing this when i had a NA 10v and you soon realise that it will cost similar to 'just poting' a turbo engine in, but be warned you then catch IT, then IT spreds, IT gets worse as you get more, IT just never enough! IT's the turbo bug!

For 200bhp IMO you will need as follows.

Free flowing air filter with cold air feed.
A better inlet manifold.
Larger polished throttle body.
increased fueling.
A better exhaust manifold.
2.5" no cat exhaust.
Fast road/Rally cam shafts.
Adjustable cam pulley
Solid lifters.
8000rpm red line (to make full use of the cam)
Then you need to think about the oil pump!
and adjust the mixture of the k-jet.

This sould get you close, i think it would sound mental on full chat.

well, i have solid lifters and (so i'm led to believe ) forged internals as well.

so is 8000rpm a reality in this engine? i did ask this question in the engine section and 'Albert' wanted to know what crank i had.

Well, i don't think its a 2.5 diesel crank, but instead is a 94mm 'chrome Molybdenum' crank. (is that helpful? ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum (sounds like its light, strong & good at resisting high temperatures)

Oh, and the bored is 82mm. (i think)

so, any ideas on a safe rpm? anyone? would really like to know how hard to push it.

[stiglet]

Yes, you do have a Chrome- Moly crank which is VERY strong, not a diesel one. And yes, the botom end will probably handle 8000rpm. The only thing i'm not sure about are the valve springs, not sure if they are stiff enough for 8000rpm.

[jogi730]

As mentioned< I used to have 2.6 TSR conversion. THis was achieved by using K-Star, an extra injector mapped to come in at certain points. No idea if this is still available now though. Because of the bags of torque (also around 200), the engine did not need revving that high and was a real pleasure to drive. Also engine ran a schrick cam (can't remember whichone) but I'm sure the GTi ENgineering cam is not too far different.
Hope this helps.
Chris

[aelred]

I rebuilt the engine in the 1986 EX works car that came 6th in the RAC rally car coupe quattro NA 2.5 The engine was totaly destroyed due to a bad rebuild by a previous builder relative well known in the quattro world. I set the CR to 11.5:1, I installed Lumenition ecu (cheap and cheerful) to be able to map the ignition and used a 6 electronic injector mapped to control the fuel pressure on the KJectronic, big valve head with the original cam.
Original I and Ex manifolds. it had a larger bore exhaust. With this set up on the engine dyno it had 202BP and identical torque figures. And still very drivable due to the extra cc's.
You can see this car at Chatworth next(?) weekend amongst other works Audis and Grp B cars.