Boost Controllers

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  • tekkno435
    S2Forum Enthusiast
    • Jul 2005
    • 133

    #1

    Boost Controllers

    As some of you are aware, i have been using a boost controller on my car for some time now. Well, what is a "Boost Controller"? In it's simplest terms, a boost controller can be a simple spring loaded device using a ball bearing as the"pressure relief" valve, this type of controller can be surprisingly accurate. The type of controller i am talking about is an electronic device with, as can be imagined, many and varied parameters that can be user set. As a for instance, maximum boost, warning buzzer, shift light, override, and many other parameters. In our cars, the S2, there is already a boost controller fitted in the shape of the WGFV or Wastegate Frequency Valve. It is however, not user adjustable.

    The type of controller i am talking about here is user adjustable and has many different functions. I have mine set, at the moment, to give boost to 1.35 bar. This is purely personal preference and at one point i had it giving 1.75 bar, that was a moment of insanity that i will not be repeating. Please bear in mind also that i do not have the stock wastgate spring but something different. The real beuty of a boost controller is that it CANNOT produce more boost than the wastegate spring is set at - ie. if you leave everything as standard and only install the boost controller, you cannot produce more boost than the standard setup. Start altering spring tensions and it will produce accordingly more or less boost. Bit like my 1.75 bar!! But as i have said, leave everything standard and any numpty can install one and not ****** their engine up (there ARE exceptions, as in every rule:-)).
    The boost controller replaces the boost control chip in your ECU, no, you don't actually put it in your ECU but you do not connect the boost pipe to youir ECU either, the boost controller now takes over that function.

    I had thought about replacing the MAP sensor in my ECU with another, indeed, i HAD fitted a 3.5 bar MAP sensor to my ECU, this would undoubtedly give me better definition but in the end the added features and functionality of the Boost Controller was the way to go i decided. The right desision too at the end of the day.
    The features i like best. Well, my wife drives a 2.6 litre v6 thingy and really likes the extra a turbo gives. I can, with the aid of the Boost Controller, limit the amount of boost available, at the flick of a switch - or as in the case of the Greddy controller i am using, the press of a button. The device has three primary settings in essence, High (me 1.35bar) Low (her 0.8bar:-)) and OFF (that would be anywhere else, like servicing etc. where there is only 0.5bar available:-))). This severely limits the antics of any would be race or rally drivers who have your car for the day.

    Fitting is a really simple affair with comprehensive instructions supplied. I had looked at several and decided on the Greddy. The decision was based on several factors and in hindsight i wish i had bought the A'pexi controller but this does not mean that the Greddy is no good, it is excellent, i would have been able to use a few of the extra functions in the A'pexi though. I know Mark is able to supply the APEXi AVC-R unit at a very competitive price. This unit is able to control gear specific boost for example, you can say how much boost you want in each gear.
    Just my thoughts.

    graham.
    Last edited by tekkno435; 18 July 2005, 18:00.
    Signature censored
    The member formerly known as tekkno300
  • T2Andy
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Mar 2005
    • 1903
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    wot sought of price for each model ,si there any performance advantage
    or is it just to give you total control of your power output,i guess the flashing
    blinking lights look cool too.
    sigpic

    Comment

    • Mark Halligan
      S2Forum Fiend
      • Jul 2003
      • 2001
      • Country: England

      #3
      Nice write up,

      I had a look at one of the A'pexi controller's not long ago (delivered it to a garage in Birmingham ), looked like a nice bit of kit.

      Kind of interested in the Turbosmart controller too:

      Australia's leading turbo performance brand since 1997. Shop wastegates, blow-off valves, boost controllers & fuel pressure regulators. Engineered to win.


      what do you reckon to these?

      Mark.
      Mark - Modded

      Comment

      • tekkno435
        S2Forum Enthusiast
        • Jul 2005
        • 133

        #4
        The Turbosmart cotrollers are good. The company itself appears to have set out to provide boost controllers and all of the possible peripherals that go along with such a controller (fuel cut controllers for instance) and integrate these peripherals into the central unit. Aesthetically though, i personally think a re-design would be beneficial, BUT this is only my opinion.
        All of the controllers do more or less the same thing and of course one of the attractions is the lineal boost control you can achieve with one of these units. It eliminates the boost "spike" and instead allows you to control boost delivery, bleeding boost off at whatever rate you set the controller. Like Andy says, it IS another twiddly knob gadget, but with a very positive features. At the risk of repeating myself, i like the fact that if i must leave the car anywhere, they have a very minimal amount of boost at their disposal. I can control the smoothness of the actual boost delivery to suit myself and wastgate creep is kept to a minimum. I don't know how much they are Andy, pm Mark as he has the info. I paid about £200.00 for my Greddy and it works for me but i would like the other features offered by the A'pexi. I also like the compactness of the unit and the comprehensive fitting kit.
        These are the conections which are now tucked out of the way.

        The MAP sensor shown in the picture is for my boost guage as i have a fully electronic unit, same as the Defi guages but 52mm and not 60mm so it fits fine in the top vent.

        graham.
        Please note MAF should read MAP in the above picture occasionally i make a typo, but it is always a stormer when i do:-)
        Signature censored
        The member formerly known as tekkno300

        Comment

        • tekkno435
          S2Forum Enthusiast
          • Jul 2005
          • 133

          #5
          Oh, and one other thing i forgot to mention. All of the boost controllers i looked at can handle at least 3 bar boost - 4 bar absolute - so for the real nutters out there.....

          graham.
          Signature censored
          The member formerly known as tekkno300

          Comment

          • BRY
            S2Forum Possessed
            • Nov 2004
            • 3755
            • Home: United Nations Current: Vietnam

            #6
            I take it that Mark = Rotoryboy
            For people who don't know
            Kingdoms are run by Kings, Dictatorships are run by Dictators.
            England must be a Country. :mischeif:

            Comment

            • rotoryboy
              S2Forum Possessed
              • May 2004
              • 3281
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              Aye, that's me.

              If you fancy one of these have a read here



              If you would like one I have organised a group buy, but I need a minimum of 10 orders. They will be £265 plus postage. If you have a really good dig about you'll see how much of a saving this is. PM me with your details or questions if you would like one.
              Mark

              Race Clio RS197

              S2 Coupe ABY (Green) - RIP
              S2 Coupe ABY (Blue) - Sold

              Comment

              • rotoryboy
                S2Forum Possessed
                • May 2004
                • 3281
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                no-one else fancy being a black sheep then
                Mark

                Race Clio RS197

                S2 Coupe ABY (Green) - RIP
                S2 Coupe ABY (Blue) - Sold

                Comment

                • s2avant95M
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 1217
                  • Home: England Current: United States

                  #9
                  i prefer being a blue cow. i'd luv to try it but suspension, exhaust and wife come first.
                  Tim

                  1995 S2 Avant, ruby red - ** SOLD TO ROSS **
                  Golf Rallye G60 ** SOLD **
                  Golf MK2 Oaky with R32 engine
                  Audi A6 Avant 1.9 TDi 130
                  Golf MK2 8v Race car

                  Comment

                  • rotoryboy
                    S2Forum Possessed
                    • May 2004
                    • 3281
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Originally posted by s2avant95M
                    wife comes first.
                    Aint she the lucky one
                    Mark

                    Race Clio RS197

                    S2 Coupe ABY (Green) - RIP
                    S2 Coupe ABY (Blue) - Sold

                    Comment

                    • Martynf
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 1885
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      Couldn't have one, it breaks my golden rule. If I have to read the user manual, don't buy it!!
                      Martyn
                      -------------------------------------

                      www.vagparts.com

                      Comment

                      • Keeper of The Kitten
                        S2Forum Fiend
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 2317
                        • Country: England

                        #12
                        Looks interesting! I have a colleague with an RX7 running Apexi full ECU (IIRC). Looks to be quite easy to tune.

                        __MDC__
                        Martin Cutting

                        aka Keeper of "The Teutonic Kitten"

                        It's not better than sex, but it runs it a close second.

                        Comment

                        • Jamo
                          Retired OG Mod
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 21750
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #13
                          Whilst they're superb products, i'm very anti boost controllers, bled valves etc etc as there's no increase in fueling when the boost is increased.

                          Having seen a few "Boy Racer" engines blown after boosting to silly pressures, the temptation is too great to run too much boost beyond the cars means.

                          In saying that if you do go for one, the Apexi is a fantastic one to buy

                          Comment

                          • S2central.net
                            Retired OG Mod
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 16590
                            • Country: Northern Ireland

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jamo
                            Whilst they're superb products, i'm very anti boost controllers, bled valves etc etc as there's no increase in fueling when the boost is increased.

                            Having seen a few "Boy Racer" engines blown after boosting to silly pressures, the temptation is too great to run too much boost beyond the cars means.

                            In saying that if you do go for one, the Apexi is a fantastic one to buy
                            No Jamo - you DO get increased fuelling with increased boost - but its purely in that linear relationship with the FPR i.e you still get 4bar rail pressure. Of course the boost controller cannot modify injector pulse width - nor can it control ignition timing. However lets not forget that its not just a matter of making the mixture super rich at WOT - its not as simple as that. Get the mixture too rich and power levels drop off - plus you get lots of unburnt fuel in the exhaust and past the rings.

                            Boost controllers are just a fancy way of controlling higher boost levels outside of the ECUs infrastructure. Of course more boost means some more torque (T is proportional to PxLxAxN after all) but you'll never get the full benefit without appropriate adjustments to fuel & timing at those increased boost levels. Sure they have some tricks in that you can create different boost profiles if your wife can't handle 1.4bar (or you leave your car at garages where you can't trust them to treat your car safely) but a simple switch to disable the WGFV would achieve the same aim. How do you change the boost profile for different drivers - with a hidden switch or using a PC - could we all be arsed with hooking up a laptop whenever the missus needs the car and she doesn't want it to be too lairy ? Maybe it would be quicker to stick a tennis ball under the right pedal - sorry I'm being silly now

                            Like all things in this life - you pays your money and you takes your choice. At £265 + postage I don't think a boost controller represents particularly good value for money on the S2 - plus you have the hassle of installing and configuring the thing.

                            Each to their own - its a free country - conceptually anyway !

                            Paul
                            Paul Nugent
                            Webmaster http://S2central.net
                            Administrator http://S2forum.com

                            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                            Comment

                            • Jamo
                              Retired OG Mod
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 21750
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #15
                              Originally posted by S2central.net
                              No Jamo - you DO get increased fuelling with increased boost - but its purely in that linear relationship with the FPR i.e you still get 4bar rail pressure. Of course the boost controller cannot modify injector pulse width - nor can it control ignition timing. However lets not forget that its not just a matter of making the mixture super rich at WOT - its not as simple as that. Get the mixture too rich and power levels drop off - plus you get lots of unburnt fuel in the exhaust and past the rings.

                              Boost controllers are just a fancy way of controlling higher boost levels outside of the ECUs infrastructure. Of course more boost means some more torque (T is proportional to PxLxAxN after all) but you'll never get the full benefit without appropriate adjustments to fuel & timing at those increased boost levels. Sure they have some tricks in that you can create different boost profiles if your wife can't handle 1.4bar (or you leave your car at garages where you can't trust them to treat your car safely) but a simple switch to disable the WGFV would achieve the same aim. How do you change the boost profile for different drivers - with a hidden switch or using a PC - could we all be arsed with hooking up a laptop whenever the missus needs the car and she doesn't want it to be too lairy ? Maybe it would be quicker to stick a tennis ball under the right pedal - sorry I'm being silly now

                              Like all things in this life - you pays your money and you takes your choice. At £265 + postage I don't think a boost controller represents particularly good value for money on the S2 - plus you have the hassle of installing and configuring the thing.

                              Each to their own - its a free country - conceptually anyway !

                              Paul
                              I know aobut boost pressure and FPR I was refering to fuel maps within the ecu. APFR and the crap FSE valves i've seen used many a time to overcome leaning out which dump shed loads of fuel in, bit like a digitech chip eh Ski.

                              Comment

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