Vems Map + Injector Sizing

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  • Bram
    S2Forum Fiend
    • Aug 2006
    • 2582
    • Country: Netherlands

    #16
    Originally posted by Jamo
    I found http://www.efiexpress.com/catalog/ar...?articles_id=1

    Damn fine webpage so yes injectors is just a calculation very good came up with a theoretical

    750 cc injectors rated at 3 bar running at 4 bar = 866.03 cc / min
    Therefore Stroker req+fuel = 6.49 * ( 2521.69 / 5 / 866.03 ) = 3.78 * .75 = 2.84

    I'm having a play and seeing what I can learn before deciding what to do with the ecu, does seem though there is a lot to learn
    In your calculation you should use the @3bar ccm number. not @4 bar. Or it must be that a UrS4 runs an FPR of 3 bar???? I thought it was 4 bar

    At least this is what is stated in Marc's instruction:

    As a guideline, set req_fuel according to the following calculation: req_fuel = 6.49 * (D / N / I) where D= engine displacement (ccs), N = number of fuel injectors, and I = injector flow rate (cc/min). To allow for finer grain fuel control I usually use 75% of this calculated number. So for an urS4 with stock injectors (280 cc/min @3 bar), req_fuel = 6.49 * (2200 / 5 / 280) = 10.2 * .75 = 7.65

    Comment

    • Jamo
      Retired OG Mod
      • Mar 2004
      • 21750
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #17
      Originally posted by Bram
      In your calculation you should use the @3bar ccm number. not @4 bar. Or it must be that a UrS4 runs an FPR of 3 bar???? I thought it was 4 bar

      At least this is what is stated in Marc's instruction:

      As a guideline, set req_fuel according to the following calculation: req_fuel = 6.49 * (D / N / I) where D= engine displacement (ccs), N = number of fuel injectors, and I = injector flow rate (cc/min). To allow for finer grain fuel control I usually use 75% of this calculated number. So for an urS4 with stock injectors (280 cc/min @3 bar), req_fuel = 6.49 * (2200 / 5 / 280) = 10.2 * .75 = 7.65
      The injectors are rated at 3 bar the ABY runs at 4 bar so convert injector rating from 3 to 4 bar = 866 cc

      The example is just an example, on his example map from the download link Req Fuel is set to 6

      280 @ 3 bar = 323.32 @ 4 bar

      6.49 * ( 2226 (the official engine size ) ) / 5 / 323.32 * 0.75 = 6.7

      So it's closer to the actual map value than 7.65

      Comment

      • Bram
        S2Forum Fiend
        • Aug 2006
        • 2582
        • Country: Netherlands

        #18
        OK I think I understand, then Marc did not do it very punctual in his calculation example as he should have used 4 bar injector flow rate and use the correct displacement. I think your assumptions are correct.

        So for my engine spec it should be:

        630 @ 3 bar = 840 @ 4 bar

        6.49 * ( 2226 / 5 / 840 ) * 0.75 = 2.58

        Comment

        • GazzaG60
          S2Forum Freak
          • Mar 2007
          • 4133
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #19
          sounds correct. i dont quite work mine like that. that gives a lower ms figure than the way i used.

          what i will do is mod the map to reflect those figures. that should tell me if marcs way of req_fuel is better.

          Comment

          • Jamo
            Retired OG Mod
            • Mar 2004
            • 21750
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #20
            Originally posted by Bram
            OK I think I understand, then Marc did not do it very punctual in his calculation example as he should have used 4 bar injector flow rate and use the correct displacement. I think your assumptions are correct.

            So for my engine spec it should be:

            630 @ 3 bar = 840 @ 4 bar

            6.49 * ( 2226 / 5 / 840 ) * 0.75 = 2.58
            630 @ 3 bar = 727 @ 4 bar!

            Comment

            • GazzaG60
              S2Forum Freak
              • Mar 2007
              • 4133
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #21
              how did you work that out jamo

              Comment

              • Jamo
                Retired OG Mod
                • Mar 2004
                • 21750
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #22
                Square root of new pressure / old pressure multiplied by old pressure...........

                Or just use the RC calculator http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

                1 bar = 14.5 psi therefore 4 bar = 58 psi

                Comment

                • Rocco
                  S2Forum Zealot
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 6393
                  • Country: Spain

                  #23
                  and the oem RS2 injectors rated to 4bar,for how many horse power at the crack will be valid??? 380hp??
                  RED Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI TME nº 16 of 250
                  BLACK Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI TME nº 189 of 250
                  LWB Audi Sport Quattro project

                  Comment

                  • GazzaG60
                    S2Forum Freak
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 4133
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #24
                    good spot that jamo.

                    i used to use an old calc like that but the calculator is much easier.

                    Comment

                    • Bram
                      S2Forum Fiend
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 2582
                      • Country: Netherlands

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Jamo
                      Square root of new pressure / old pressure multiplied by old pressure...........

                      Or just use the RC calculator http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

                      1 bar = 14.5 psi therefore 4 bar = 58 psi
                      I am learning everyday! Great that you pointed this out!

                      Comment

                      • Bram
                        S2Forum Fiend
                        • Aug 2006
                        • 2582
                        • Country: Netherlands

                        #26
                        So again my setup

                        For my engine spec it should be:

                        630 @ 3 bar = 727.5 @ 4 bar

                        6.49 * ( 2226 / 5 / 727 ) * 0.75 = 2.98

                        Comment

                        • Bram
                          S2Forum Fiend
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 2582
                          • Country: Netherlands

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Rocco
                          and the oem RS2 injectors rated to 4bar,for how many horse power at the crack will be valid??? 380hp??
                          370-380 max @ 3.8 bar FPR
                          Last edited by Bram; 6 August 2009, 15:03.

                          Comment

                          • Jamo
                            Retired OG Mod
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 21750
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Rocco
                            and the oem RS2 injectors rated to 4bar,for how many horse power at the crack will be valid??? 380hp??
                            RS2 injectors

                            360 cc @ 3 bar
                            405 cc @ 3.8 bar <- FPR of the RS2
                            416 cc @ 4 bar

                            They will support 400 bhp, Mihnea has quoted as such IIRC on the forum

                            Anyhow back to VEMS there are injector threads covering this

                            Comment

                            • repo
                              S2Forum Maniac
                              • Dec 2004
                              • 893
                              • Country: Finland

                              #29
                              deka 006 flow chart:



                              Your calculation was suprizingly close.

                              e: injector CC/min = hp in our precious I5 engines.
                              Everything less than 2 bar is considered to be naturally aspirated

                              Comment

                              • Bram
                                S2Forum Fiend
                                • Aug 2006
                                • 2582
                                • Country: Netherlands

                                #30
                                Originally posted by repo
                                deka 006 flow chart:



                                Your calculation was suprizingly close.

                                e: injector CC/min = hp in our precious I5 engines.
                                @ 3 bar I presume?

                                So Siemens Deka 006 630ccm@3bar injectors in our cars (using a 4 bar FPR) should be good enough for around 630 crank HP. I think Paul mentioned this before as well in another thread.

                                Comment

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