LPG Conversion for 7A Coupe 20V Quattro?

[cexley]

I love my old Coupe 20V Quattro, and although I also have a more 'sensible' family A6 1.9 TDi that refuses to do less than 52mpg, it is just so boring!

With fuel costs getting sillier all the time, I am seriously considering converting the 7A to LPG as it still remains the best back road commuting tool for me. In the recent snow, it was literally unstoppable. I know anything that can only achieve 24mpg these days doesn't make commuting sense, but I make no apologies, because I love it.

It is in near immaculate original condition (with only 100k) and geat mechanical condition, so I am not proposing trying to convert a nail.

Can anyone reccomend an LPG convertor that has experience converting normally aspirated 5 pot 20 valvers, and if so, what have your experiences been of LPG conversions? Which LPG manufacturers are best for older Audis? How reliable are they in the real world of commuting? Are there issues with servicing after the conversion work etc?

[Jonnybravo]

I have worked with LPG for over 5 years, I can't say I have ever converted a vehicle of that age simply as the company I worked for aimed to work on modern low mileage cars but this ofcourse does not mean it cannot be done.

Is this one of the K jetronic injected engines ? if so that will limit what systems you can use on the engine, if not then there is plenty of kits out there that are available.

My experience with K Jetronic systems sadly only go as far as one vehicle which was a Merc 4x4, I forget which model but it was actually quite a old one but had low miles, typically it ended up being a right PITA but I believe eventually all the problems turned out to be car related and not anything to do with the work we carried out but this was sorted after I left.

If its K Jetronic then you will have to use a single point LPG system, BRC had a lot to do with that type of injection setup and thus supplied us with everything we needed to do one, I can't advise you on who to use as usually these days companies will try and stay away from using single point injection setups but if you search on the LPGA website for dealers you could give a few people a call to see if they can help.

If its a multipoint engine then I worked with Prins, BRC and more recently Eurogas (who are the sister company to Landi Renzo) Whilst being trained in Holland on Eurogas one of the owners Volvos was on their system and it was then that I did some looking into using it on my own S2 as it was cheaper than its rivals and was actually a very good system as it was made up from using the best bits from all the other manufacturers, however I have no idea who you could contact in this country about a install, maybe try Nicholson Mclaren Engines as they use the kits on the new Citroens as that who I did the training with, they are also the importers for the system so I expect they may be able to put you in touch with one of their installers, John there or even better Mohan would possibly give you some advice but I can't guarantee anything as they themselves only do new vehicles and may have no interest in anything has old as your own car.

My advice would be to look through the LPGA website, see what comes up on there and make a few calls and see what people can offer you, feel free to post up anything you have been told on here and I'll do my best to offer any further advice if I can.

[pnanassy]

We have converted now 2, previously K-Jet engines to multipoint full sequential LPG injection.With standalone engine management on both tough.

I can supply all the parts im using,they are rated up to 250kW /reductor,35kW/injector.

Peter

I have worked with LPG for over 5 years, I can't say I have ever converted a vehicle of that age simply as the company I worked for aimed to work on modern low mileage cars but this ofcourse does not mean it cannot be done.

Is this one of the K jetronic injected engines ? if so that will limit what systems you can use on the engine, if not then there is plenty of kits out there that are available.

My experience with K Jetronic systems sadly only go as far as one vehicle which was a Merc 4x4, I forget which model but it was actually quite a old one but had low miles, typically it ended up being a right PITA but I believe eventually all the problems turned out to be car related and not anything to do with the work we carried out but this was sorted after I left.

If its K Jetronic then you will have to use a single point LPG system, BRC had a lot to do with that type of injection setup and thus supplied us with everything we needed to do one, I can't advise you on who to use as usually these days companies will try and stay away from using single point injection setups but if you search on the LPGA website for dealers you could give a few people a call to see if they can help.

If its a multipoint engine then I worked with Prins, BRC and more recently Eurogas (who are the sister company to Landi Renzo) Whilst being trained in Holland on Eurogas one of the owners Volvos was on their system and it was then that I did some looking into using it on my own S2 as it was cheaper than its rivals and was actually a very good system as it was made up from using the best bits from all the other manufacturers, however I have no idea who you could contact in this country about a install, maybe try Nicholson Mclaren Engines as they use the kits on the new Citroens as that who I did the training with, they are also the importers for the system so I expect they may be able to put you in touch with one of their installers, John there or even better Mohan would possibly give you some advice but I can't guarantee anything as they themselves only do new vehicles and may have no interest in anything has old as your own car.

My advice would be to look through the LPGA website, see what comes up on there and make a few calls and see what people can offer you, feel free to post up anything you have been told on here and I'll do my best to offer any further advice if I can.

[Jonnybravo]

Did you retain the K Jetronic Peter ?

What system and ecu did you run ?

[pnanassy]

Hi!

The Kjet was completely removed from both cars.

The "turbo MC" runs on VEMS ECU,the LPG system uses Zavoli reducer and PAN high flow injectors.

http://www.matlukaudi.hu/galeria/index.php?album=VEMS+%2B+LPG

My NA 10v uses Motec ECU,and exactly the same LPG system,because my current project is to build a high compression boosted 7A,and feed it with LPG.
This car was already converted to EFI,but i never used it as a "bi" fuel car,since the LPG injector system fired up.
Top on that,i removed the fuel tank and placed the LPG tank there.





HTH,
Peter

Did you retain the K Jetronic Peter ?

What system and ecu did you run ?

[andy10v]

7a is multipoint, Maf etc

[Jonnybravo]

LPG is used mainly as a basis to save money, fitting a new fuel injection system and Motec does mean it will take a while longer to get your money back, none the less its good to see it being used in that way.

If the 7A is multipoint then Prins, BRC, Eurogas and many more all offer systems that can work that engine. If I could source the kit I'd be happy to do it for you, I just cant offer warranty or anything like that which is why I would understand you would maybe prefer to take it someone.

Reliabilty wise though I ran 2 cars on LPG for 20k and the other for 70k without any major dramas, an injector failure being the most hassle as I was away at the time but I would imagine that issue has been rectified by the manufacturers by now

[PeteUr]

Another person on here using lpg on this style engine is diesel des, he's running 400+ with his.

[knobstar]

This guy's CQ seems to pull ok even if it is running "an old ****** LPG system" as he puts it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oln6_DbeY4

[pnanassy]

There is simply no need for the fuel injection system to run the engine on LPG (IF the system is built this in mind!).Even in the coldest -15C the engine started immediately,and altough it runs a bit rough in the first minutes,most can live with it.

It was only done as a research and i wanted to show that there is a simple and effective way to upgrade the problematic Kjet system.

Motec costs a lot thats for sure,but VEMS can be VERY cost effecticve,and with the unlimited tuning potential,each and every application can be finetuned to great extent.
Calculating that you will not need the LPG ECU for about 180-200GBP,it can be pretty reasonable.

Im not sure about the LPG car regulations in the UK,that can be the tricky part.

Peter

[knobstar]

So it would be entirely feasible to have a car that just runs on LPG by using Motec or Vems?

[pnanassy]

Yes,

mine 10v NA and my friends 10vt runs on LPG only.

Im not sure about the long term issues on the reducer however.Maybe it wears out a bit faster,but we are unsure about this.The VEMS controlled LPG vehicle runs every day since 2008.

We are working on maxing out the power potential of this setup,im currently building a 20vt LPG engine with high compression,and the other guy is making a turbo NG 10v engine with high compression.Since we are running extreme ignition advance,we decided to raise the CR to make the engines more effective.

I will make some experiments on a dyno,to figure out where is the best power,because there is some confusion about this.

Peter

[knobstar]

Yes,

I will make some experiments on a dyno,to figure out where is the best power,because there is some confusion about this.

Peter

If you could post the results when you've done this that would be great, as I imagine it would interested quite a few people I for one am very interested in an LPG-only setup

Matt

[pnanassy]

the Gtech measurement showed this on the low compression 10vt (MC)

[knobstar]

How low is the compression on that? ANd how much are you thinking of raising it?