vems trigger problems on aan

[diesel des]

Ok. Did you weld this yourself? What sort of rods should I use. Dissimilar or normal mild steel. Cheers

[QuattroFever]

what is the problem exactly is the pin too thin or the wrong shape or not magnetic? I have a 7a alu flywheel expected to run on vems and havent had the pleasure of turning the key yet. Can you just tap a hole in the flywheel same place and srew bigger steel rod in?
its relevant but sorry for hijack.

[A80Avant]

the pin is magnetic, apparently due to noise vems cannot pick it up correctly sometimes. I believe if you take it out and put a bigger one in it should work as well. I dont have any info on that though. We just went for a secure solution to make it work and welded some iron next to it to make it visible to the sensor

[a4kquattro]

yep, drilling a hole and fitting a larger pin works too. Just be sure that the pin is ferrous (magnetic) and in the same location as stock (which puts the pin in the middle of the VR sensor when the cam hall shutter wheel or the distributor hall sensor in the case of a 3b setup is in the middle of its window).

If you compare the size of the pin on a 7a or 3b flywheel to the pin on an AAN you'll see the size difference.

I use hardened steel dowels from mcmaster-carr (industrial supply house here in the USA) when I run into this problem on customer cars.

[diesel des]

Going to pull starter and look at this tonight. Should the new piece of steel have its mid point where the center of the hole is now. Or should the edge of the new piece line up where the pin was. Eg does the ecu trigger on the edge or center point.

And mild steel rods ok.

[diesel des]

Right I welded a piece of steel on the flywheel. It's about 12 mm tall and wide so covers about 2 or 3 crank teeth like the one in the pictures. And my problem is worse! The trigger error happens just about 1500rpm now. I swaped the red and purple wires again at the sensor to I think stock setup. Red in middle. This helps but still not perfect.

Now I'm lost people .help. I will try and get a config file posted tomorrow night. Cheers des

[a4kquattro]

Right I welded a piece of steel on the flywheel. It's about 12 mm tall and wide so covers about 2 or 3 crank teeth like the one in the pictures. And my problem is worse! The trigger error happens just about 1500rpm now. I swaped the red and purple wires again at the sensor to I think stock setup. Red in middle. This helps but still not perfect.

Now I'm lost people .help. I will try and get a config file posted tomorrow night. Cheers des

no idea where you bought your ecu (not from me) but:

1) check your trigger input configuration (ask your dealer). specifically the pullup resistor size.

2) does your ecu have a cam hall inverter installed? It should.

3) verify that when the hall sensor window is centered over the hall sensor that the reference pin on the flywheel is also centered on the VR sensor. If its offset by too much it might be going out-of-window when the engine starts up from cam belt flex. The stock ecu can deal with the reference pin going out of window by a little bit, the vems cannot because of the way the noise filtering works.

[diesel des]

Ok do I take the belt cover off the cam sensor and crank pin should be both lined up in there sensor at the same time.

Thanks for the help marc. Ps your south bend clutch is now installed and has great bite. It is a bit harder on the leg though. I will just have to man up a bit lol.

[a4kquattro]

Ok do I take the belt cover off the cam sensor and crank pin should be both lined up in there sensor at the same time.

right, just peel back the cover a bit so you can see the cam shutter wheel and watch for when its lined up with the hall sensor. then pull the little reference sender block on the tranny that has the two VR sensors in it, and verify that the reference pin is near the center of the sender hole in the tranny.

On the cam hall inverter, you can tell if you've got one via your primary trigger settings (if you've got the right config anyway!). If your "First Trigger Tooth" is 8, you DO NOT have a cam hall inverter. If its set to 0, you DO have a cam hall inverter.

Thanks for the help marc. Ps your south bend clutch is now installed and has great bite. It is a bit harder on the leg though. I will just have to man up a bit lol.

I'm 5'5 130lbs dripping wet and it doesn't seem bad to me. MAN UP!

[diesel des]

No Its not bad at all Marc, but is a harder push than the Spec pressure plate i had befour. Maybe thats why it slipped though...

So back to the vems. Here are some pictures of the pin i made and a stock aan flywheel.

I basicly made a piece of steel with a hole in it that was a press fit over the stock 7a pin. I ground down the steel untill the hole was almost broken through at the outside so the steel wouldnt get too close to the sensor.

There is a nice big "pin" now for the sensor to see. Motronic is still happy but not vems.

[diesel des]

And my Config file

# CurrentTime: 2010-06-07 22:14:24
# Creator: VemsTune 0.10.20 (2010.03.08)
# Version: 1.1.74
# SerialNumber: v3.3_n002860
# CompilationTime: 2010-04-24 13:21
# Signature: VEMS v1.1.74 16x14 kpa=2,2
# CompileOptions: 0000001E

primep=00
primep_temp_scaling=00
awe_time_cold=7D
awe_time_warm=19
cranking_thres=02
warmup_map_scale=E6
cranking_div=02
film_coeff=0D
shiftcut_potlow=3C
shiftcut_pothi=FF
shiftcut_retcut=00
boost_matdec=C8
boost_egtdec=77
iacref_matslope=60
shiftcut_minrpm=FF
egt_rich=00
knock_rich=AA
knock_boost=C8
warmup_clt[0]=74
warmup_clt[1]=5D
warmup_clt[2]=40
warmup_clt[3]=29
warmup_clt[4]=22
warmup_clt[5]=0D
warmup_clt[6]=00
warmup_clt[7]=00
warmup_clt[8]=08
warmup_clt[9]=34
warmup_rpm_scale=E6
req_fuel=1E
divider=01
alternate=04
injopen=00
battfac=22
kpafac=D0
kpaoffs=94
injocfuel=08
injrampup_battfac=FF
injpwm=FF
injpwmt=FF
als_launch_input=C6
launch_maxkpa=FF
launch_kparange=FF
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=00
tpsdotrate[0]=04
tpsdotrate[1]=07
tpsdotrate[2]=0F
tpsdotrate[3]=1A
tpsaq[0]=40
tpsaq[1]=2D
tpsaq[2]=0D
tpsaq[3]=07
als_cut_mintps=FF
tpsasync=C0
acmult=5A
tpsacold=5A
launch_enrich=1A
launch_retard=50
overrun_fuelcut=12
overrun_fuelresume=0E
rev_limit=46
airden_ignore=61
config11=41
config12=40
config13=02
batt_cal=C0
iac2load=C6
als_max_cut=00
dbaro=0A
tps_low=16
tps_high=E6
fan_temp=EA
fan_hyst=05
fan_channel=FF
iac_step_seq=D8
iac_conf=58
iac_max_steps=CC
iac_tps_thres=05
iac_cold_idle_temp=8C
iac_warm_idle_temp=AA
iac_cold_rpm=6E
iac_warm_rpm=64
iac_cold_start_pos=BF
iac_warm_start_pos=99
iac_afterstart_rpm=00
iac_afterstart_duration=19
iac_speed=17
iac_kp=0A
iac_ki=32
iac_kd=32
launch_rpm=00
iac_integral_limit_dec=0A
iac_integral_limit_inc=0A
iac_integral_deadband=14
launch_retard_margin=4B
als_cut_maxtps=FF
confswitch=C6
iac_ref_pos[0]=99
iac_ref_pos[1]=8C
iac_ref_pos[2]=82
iac_ref_pos[3]=80
iac_ref_pos[4]=80
iac_ref_pos[5]=80
iac_ref_pos[6]=80
iac_ref_pos[7]=80
iac_ref_pos[8]=80
iac_ref_pos[9]=80
iac_sol_channel=60
iac_ign_slope=04
softrpm_range=32
iac_ign_advance_limit=30
iac_ign_retard_limit=10
iac_ign_threshold=04
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=14
ego_coolant=91
ego_maxtps=E6
ego_maxmap=A0
ego_minrpm=06
ego_maxrpm=46
ego_warmup=2D
ego_lean_limit=00
ego_rich_limit=00
ego_pid_kp=80
als_enrich=00
ego_delta=03
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=01
ignretard_clamp=FF
als_react_tps=FF
wbo2_abs_limit=E0
wbo2_limit_maxt=F0
wbo2_fallback=71
wbo2_retry_t=06
als_retard_rpm1=FF
als_retard_rpm2=FF
wbo2_ri_target=A5
wbo2_nernstdc_target=86
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=66
wbo2_calibration=97
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=45
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=11
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=4E
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=7A
inj_stage2_offset=80
knock_chan=F0
knock_sampling_window=00
knock1_frequency=29
knock1_gain=0E
knock1_integrator=14
knock2_frequency=29
knock2_gain=00
knock2_integrator=00
knock_threshold=0A
knock_noise_scale=D8
knock_max_retard=00
knock_default_retard=00
knock_retard_step=00
knock_retard_delay=30
knock_advance_step=00
knock_advance_delay=00
knock_minrpm=F4
knock_maxrpm=FF
ego_delay=14
ego_minmap=09
cold_ignadjust=80
crank_ve=96
film_enlean=00
iac_close_delay=28
iac_integral_lowmap=32
spare_vars[0]=28
spare_vars[1]=50
lcd_c0=FE
lcd_delay=42
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=22
als_igncut_rpm2=FF
als_retard_mintps=FF
als_retard_maxtps=FF
lcd_default_view=00
primary_trigger=42
secondary_trigger=18
tooth_wheel=5A
trigger_tooth=00
another_trigger_tooth=12
crank_minper=00
tooth_wheel_twidth[0]=00
tooth_wheel_twidth[1]=20
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=00
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=00
reset_engphase_after=40
ign_tdcdelay=6A
ign_dwell14=3B
ign_dwellmap=0B
ign_crank_advance=18
ign_out=70
ignchmax=04
engine_off_delay=08
pump_on_mintime=0B
fuelpump_channel=50
inj_stage2_rate=FF
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=FF
als_igncut_rpm1=FF
als_deact_time=00
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=CC
als_rev_limit=FF
misc1out_minrpm=00
misc1out_maxrpm=03
misc1out_mintps=00
misc1out_maxtps=FF
misc1out_minmap=00
misc1out_maxmap=FF
misc1out_channel=0F
misc2out_minrpm=FF
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=FF
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=FF
misc2out_maxmap=FF
misc2out_channel=FF
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=FF
act_rpm_rpm=23
act_rpm_channel=32
egt1_cal=4B
als_tks_channel=FF
boost_conf=61
boost_more=40
boost_minpressure=37
boost_pid_kp=28
boost_pid_ki=28
boost_pid_kd=3C
boost_pid_ilimit=64
boost_channel=FF
water_pump_temp=00
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=00
water_pump_hyst=7E
water_pump_channel=FF
toothrel_normal=76
toothrel_missing=00
fuelcut_min_kpa=09
fuelcut_max_kpa=A0
tach_channel=07
tach_div=10
shiftcut_conf_input=A1
shiftcut_tpsthresh=00
shiftcut_time=7F
softrpm_rpm=41
n2o_mintps=FF
n2o_minrpm=FF
n2o_maxrpm=FF
n2o_retard=00
n2o_minkpa=FF
n2o_maxkpa=FF
n2o_input=FC
n2o_output_channel=FF
n2o_settings=FC
launch_out_channel=FF
launch_out_delay=FF
launch_out_pwmlow=FF
launch_out_pwmhigh=FF
launch_out_pwmramp=FF
launch_out_ontime=FF
launch_out_conf=FF
iac_minpwm=40
boostgauge_channel=FF
boostgauge_offset=FF
boostgauge_mul=FF
map_filter=00
speed_sensor=FF
gears[0]=FF
gears[1]=FF
gears[2]=FF
gears[3]=FF
gears[4]=FF
gears[5]=FF
pwcommlock0=FF
als_iacpos=FF
blabla5[0]=FF
blabla5[1]=FF
blabla5[2]=FF
vtstorage[0]=FF
vtstorage[1]=FF
vtstorage[2]=FF
vtstorage[3]=FF
vtstorage[4]=FF
vtstorage[5]=FF
vtstorage[6]=FF
vtstorage[7]=FF
iac_conf2=FD
warning_rpm=FF
warning_kpa=FF
warning_conf=FF
warning_adc_value=FF
warning_egt=FF
warning_afr=FF
warning_clt=FF
warning_channel=FF
injection_angle=FF
boost_tps_dc_scale=FF
n2o_mingear=FF
misc1out_conditions=FF
misc1out_condition1=FF
misc1out_condition2=FF
misc2out_conditions=FF
misc2out_condition1=FF
misc2out_condition2=FF
knock_gain[0]=FF
knock_gain[1]=FF
knock_gain[2]=FF
knock_gain[3]=FF
knock_gain[4]=FF
knock_gain[5]=FF
knock_gain[6]=FF
knock_gain[7]=FF
knock_reference[0]=FF
knock_reference[1]=FF
knock_reference[2]=FF
knock_reference[3]=FF
knock_reference[4]=FF
knock_reference[5]=FF
knock_reference[6]=FF
knock_reference[7]=FF
knock_calibration_min=FF
knock_calibration_max=FF
inj_add_trim[0]=FF
inj_add_trim[1]=FF
inj_add_trim[2]=FF
inj_add_trim[3]=FF
inj_add_trim[4]=FF
inj_add_trim[5]=FF
inj_add_trim[6]=FF
inj_add_trim[7]=FF
inj_deadtime[0]=FF
inj_deadtime[1]=FF
inj_deadtime[2]=FF
inj_deadtime[3]=FF
inj_deadtime[4]=FF
speed1_sensor=FF
fp_divider=FF
gears_delay=FF
anytrim1=F7
launch_speed1=FF
n2o_rich=80
speed_mintime=FF
accell_retard=00
cranking_clt_range[0]=50
cranking_clt_range[1]=78
cranking_clt_range[2]=A0
cranking_clt_range[3]=DC
crank_enrich[0]=38
crank_enrich[1]=24
crank_enrich[2]=14
crank_enrich[3]=04
afterstart_enrich[0]=0D
afterstart_enrich[1]=08
afterstart_enrich[2]=04
afterstart_enrich[3]=01
vvti_cold=FF
vvti_idle=FF
vvti_pid_kp=FF
vvti_pid_ki=FF
vvti_pid_kd=FF
vvti_pid_ilimit=FF
vvti_channel=FF
accel_rpm[0]=0A
accel_rpm[1]=19
accel_rpm[2]=28
accel_rpm[3]=3C
accel_scale[0]=00
accel_scale[1]=00
accel_scale[2]=00
accel_scale[3]=00
inj_stage2_conf=FE
als_tps_thres=FF
bla2[0]=FF
bla2[1]=FF
bla2[2]=FF
bla2[3]=FF
bla2[4]=FF
bla2[5]=FF
bla2[6]=FF
bla2[7]=FF
bla2[8]=FF
inj_size[0]=02
inj_size[1]=B2
clt_curve[0]=FE
clt_curve[1]=BF
clt_curve[2]=A8
clt_curve[3]=9A
clt_curve[4]=91
clt_curve[5]=89
clt_curve[6]=83
clt_curve[7]=7D
clt_curve[8]=77
clt_curve[9]=71
clt_curve[A]=6C
clt_curve[B]=66
clt_curve[C]=60
clt_curve[D]=5A
clt_curve[E]=51
clt_curve[F]=44
clt_curve[G]=3C
mat_curve[0]=FE
mat_curve[1]=BF
mat_curve[2]=A8
mat_curve[3]=9A
mat_curve[4]=91
mat_curve[5]=89
mat_curve[6]=83
mat_curve[7]=7D
mat_curve[8]=77
mat_curve[9]=71
mat_curve[A]=6C
mat_curve[B]=66
mat_curve[C]=60
mat_curve[D]=5A
mat_curve[E]=51
mat_curve[F]=44
mat_curve[G]=3C
clt_range[0]=3C
clt_range[1]=50
clt_range[2]=64
clt_range[3]=78
clt_range[4]=8C
clt_range[5]=A0
clt_range[6]=AC
clt_range[7]=B9
clt_range[8]=CE
clt_range[9]=DC
boostalt_channel=70
h[0]=08 02 01 04 10 20 40 80
h[1]=00 48 36 24 12 00 00 00
h[2]=68 40 38 48 58 50 50 50
j[0]=6A 6B 6E 6D 6B 6B 6D 6D 6F 72 73 72 70 6E 69 65
j[1]=75 74 75 73 73 74 7A 7C 77 75 73 73 72 70 6C 67
j[2]=78 79 7B 7B 7D 7A 7E 81 7D 73 72 73 72 6F 6C 69
j[3]=7B 79 7C 7D 7D 7D 7F 83 7E 73 72 74 72 6F 6C 69
j[4]=7B 7E 7B 7D 7B 7C 7D 82 7E 72 72 74 73 70 6E 6E
j[5]=78 79 78 78 7F 7F 80 83 83 6F 71 72 71 70 70 6F
j[6]=78 79 7D 7E 7F 7F 81 82 7C 6C 6E 6F 6E 6D 6D 6F
j[7]=6F 6F 7F 7F 7F 7F 81 80 7F 6F 6F 6F 6F 6F 6F 6F
j[8]=78 77 7E 7F 81 81 7F 81 81 79 79 79 79 7A 7B 7C
j[9]=83 83 83 83 84 80 7F 80 82 83 83 84 84 85 85 86
j[A]=83 83 84 84 85 82 85 87 89 8D 8E 90 8F 8F 8F 8F
j[B]=83 83 85 84 86 85 89 8C 90 94 96 99 9A 98 98 97
j[C]=78 86 86 86 86 89 8B 90 94 99 9B 9E A0 9F 9E 9E
j[D]=00 78 88 80 88 8B 90 96 9A 9D A0 A3 A4 A4 A3 A3
j[r]=02 05 08 0A 0C 10 14 1A 20 27 2D 34 3C 43 4A 50
j[k]=0A 0F 17 1E 28 32 43 53 64 71 7D 8A 96 AA
l[0]=38 3B 31 2C 2C 3B 54 54
l[1]=3B 3B 31 2C 2C 43 54 54
l[2]=3D 40 31 31 31 43 54 54
l[3]=3D 3D 43 43 48 4B 4B 4B
l[4]=4B 4B 4B 4B 51 54 54 58
l[5]=58 58 58 58 58 62 62 62
l[6]=70 70 70 70 70 70 78 78
l[7]=78 78 78 78 78 78 78 78
l[r]=07 0E 14 1E 28 32 3C 50
l[k]=0F 23 2D 33 41 55 69 82
n[0]=28 28 40 70 98 A8 AF B4 B8 B8 BC BC
n[1]=28 28 44 70 98 A8 B1 B8 B8 B8 BC BC
n[2]=28 28 48 70 8C A0 AC B4 B8 B8 B8 B8
n[3]=34 38 54 70 84 98 A4 A4 A8 A8 A8 A8
n[4]=30 40 4C 64 70 88 94 94 94 94 98 98
n[5]=30 40 40 50 58 73 7C 7C 84 84 84 84
n[6]=34 3C 3C 48 54 6C 78 78 80 80 80 80
n[7]=34 3C 38 3C 50 58 64 6C 6C 70 74 74
n[8]=2C 30 2C 38 44 4C 54 58 58 58 5C 5C
n[9]=20 20 24 34 3C 3C 44 48 48 48 4C 4C
n[A]=04 14 0C 1C 20 24 2C 30 34 34 34 38
n[B]=07 10 0C 18 1C 20 28 30 30 30 30 34
n[r]=08 0B 12 18 1E 24 2A 30 36 3C 42 48
n[k]=0F 19 23 2D 33 3C 46 55 64 73 82 96
t[0]=1F 40 5E 80 9E CC FF FF
b[0]=32 3C 46 64 7D 96 96 96 96 96 96 96
b[1]=3B 3D FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[2]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[3]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[4]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[5]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[6]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[7]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[8]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[9]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[A]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[B]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
b[r]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
p[0]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
e[0]=C8 B0 98 80 80 74 64 64
e[1]=C8 B0 98 80 80 74 64 64
e[2]=C8 B0 98 80 80 74 64 64
e[3]=C8 B0 98 80 80 74 64 64
e[4]=C8 B0 98 80 80 74 64 64
e[5]=C8 B0 98 80 80 74 64 64
e[6]=C8 B0 98 80 80 74 64 64
e[7]=C8 B0 98 80 80 74 64 64
e[r]=3C 50 64 78 8C A0 B4 C8
e[k]=00 06 10 34 67 9A CD FD
y[0]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
y[1]=00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[2]=00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[3]=00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[4]=00 CC CC FF FF FF FF CC CC CC CC CC
y[5]=00 4D 4D BF BF BF BF CC CC CC CC CC
y[6]=00 33 33 85 85 85 87 87 8A 8A 8A 8A
y[7]=00 1A 1A 7A 7A 7A 7A 7A 80 80 80 80
y[8]=00 1A 1A 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33
y[9]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
y[A]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
y[B]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
y[r]=01 10 17 1E 21 24 28 2D 32 37 41 50
y[k]=32 3C 4B 64 6E 78 82 8C 96 9B A5 AF
i[0]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
i[1]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
i[2]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
i[3]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
i[4]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
i[5]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
i[6]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
i[7]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
i[r]=04 0A 0F 14 1E 28 32 3C
i[k]=00 0A 14 32 64 96 C8 FA
w[0]=0C 0C 08 00 00 00 00 00
w[1]=08 08 04 00 00 00 00 00
w[2]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
w[3]=00 00 00 00 02 08 10 14
w[4]=00 00 00 00 06 12 1E 2A
w[5]=00 00 00 00 08 14 20 2C
w[6]=00 00 00 00 0A 16 22 2E
w[7]=00 00 00 00 0A 18 24 30
w[r]=3C 50 64 78 8C A0 B4 C8
w[k]=00 06 10 24 3E 67 B3 FD
s[0]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
s[1]=0A 1E 32 46 5A 6E 96 00

[diesel des]

Oh i did weld the new piece of steel to the flywheel with mild steel rods with the earth connected to the front pully. Earthing on the block and welding the flywheel can cause micro welds on the big ends and isnt good. The battery was disconnected and ecu removed.

Would be this weekend before i get to play anymore. So lets make a list of stuff to try,

1. turn crank till new tooth is in middle of sensor and check to see if cam sensor is in middle of its window.

Anything else?

Could the engine really be out of time as it runs fine on motronic. How could i adjust it slightly if required. It cant be a tooth out...

Cheers,des

[diesel des]

Yes and both the vems ecus are AAN replacement units so have the correct setup. I got them from Peter Nanassy who is working hard to help. But the more help the better. Cheers des.

[S2central.net]

And they say Motronic is complicated - LOL... Seriously though - good luck Des... trying to work out if the reference pin needs to be magnetic or not.

On motronic the crank reference signal has to arrive within the 'hall window' - looks like VEMs is same in this regard when I skim this thread. Don't forget I still have your sillyscope here - that would be useful here to 'see' what signals you get on a cold crank. I was using it today helping a friend condemn an O2 probe on a 996.

[diesel des]

Yea I might need that back for a while then. I'm sure this could be sorted in software though. As I can start the car with the sensor connected, then turn it off in software and disconnect the sensor plug. Then it runs great. Surely software could do that....