Hall trigger 034 Stage II C on cam lobe

[audis293]

Been using 034 ECU for a while using the stock hall sensor on the cam wheel on my ABY engine.
I did have some missfire at 7200 rpm before when engine was mapped, but could pull to 8400 + on the road after mapping the higher scales myself.
After rebuilding engine again, and not getting a steady hall sensor signal, and since I am going for more rpm, I was adviced by 034 to trigger the hall signal from the cam lobe to get a nice and clean signal.
Has anyone done this and can share some info how I should position the sensor compared to lobe?

Also, I am struggeling to understand the hall sensors task. I know it determins the cam cyclus for start up, but since it is required on high rpms apparantly, what other stuff do that sensor actually do? I have been told it also works as a TDC sensor, but can not get into my head how that works since aftermarket cams are usually adjustable. Struggeling to understand how it can determine TDC when something is "movable".
I thought its only task was to detemince cycklus for start up, and therefore not needed again before next start.What am I missing here?

[prj]

I am not sure about 034 EFI, but on the stock ECU the hall sensor is used for phasing, as a trigger.

[audis293]

I am not sure about 034 EFI, but on the stock ECU the hall sensor is used for phasing, as a trigger.

Yes, it decides the cam phase,agree.
What I am curius about is what the ECU actually does with the aditional information it gets.
I know it uses it for deciding phase for start up, but apparantly it also works as a top dead sensor during running. What does it do with that information, and how is it working as a TDC since it passes the trigger every 2 rotations? Reason for asking is that I think the ECU used the 60-2 trigger wheel sensor to decide timing and injection since it knows that the minus teeth is ..lets say 62 degrees BTDC, and can therefore say I want to ignite ...lets say 20 degrees BTDC in this scenario.
To me, the ECU has enough info to run just by the 60-2 trigger sensor so not sure why the hall sensor is needed after the engine has started.

Does the ECU need to know the phase for every second revolution after it has started?

I know my questions are silly, I just don understand it all....

[prj]

The camshaft position sensor is used to determine the correct time for injection and ignition. It tells the ECU once per engine rotation what phase the engine is in.

And no, TDC info can not be gathered from that sensor, because there can be flexing in the chains / thermal expansion etc, which would skew the results.
All TDC info is gathered from the crankshaft position sensor.

Basically:
While the crankshaft position sensor tells the ecu which piston is at TDC, and how fast the engine rotates, it can not tell the ECU if said piston is in it's compression or it's exhaust stroke, and that is where the camshaft position sensor comes in.
And it is not really needed after engine startup... or well, depends on the system - often the camshaft position sensor signal is used as a trigger for an interrupt, which starts a process...

[audis293]

You are basically saying what I previously thought as well. My confusion comes from Javad at 034 where he in a series of emails is telling me that it is a TDC as well without explaining in details.
He also says that 034 normally dont use this sensor, easier to use wastespark. But he recommends to use it above 8K rpm or above 800 HP. So why it is needed above 8K if it is not required for anything else but starting, I dont know.

The camshaft position sensor is used to determine the correct time for injection and ignition. It tells the ECU once per engine rotation what phase the engine is in.

And no, TDC info can not be gathered from that sensor, because there can be flexing in the chains / thermal expansion etc, which would skew the results.
All TDC info is gathered from the crankshaft position sensor.

Basically:
While the crankshaft position sensor tells the ecu which piston is at TDC, and how fast the engine rotates, it can not tell the ECU if said piston is in it's compression or it's exhaust stroke, and that is where the camshaft position sensor comes in.
And it is not really needed after engine startup... or well, depends on the system - often the camshaft position sensor signal is used as a trigger for an interrupt, which starts a process...

[prj]

No idea.
But using camshaft sensor for TDC is generally a bad idea...

I don't know how their ECU is built, I have no experience with it, the stuff I am telling you is just general EFI.
You do need the sensor for sequential injection and coil-on-plug ignition though.

[Jamo]

Wastedspark on a 5 cylinder?

[prj]

That's how all the megasquirt runs.

[terrybullwon]

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showpos...6&postcount=96

[audis293]

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showpos...6&postcount=96

That looks fancy!
The way I was explained from 034 (if I understand them correctly) is to aim the hall sensor towards the cam lobe so the lobe triggers the sensor everytime it passes. The sensor will in this case be boltet through the head cover.

Will try this when I get the answer from 034 how to position the sensor compared to lobe.

[ibanez_6]

That looks fancy!
The way I was explained from 034 (if I understand them correctly) is to aim the hall sensor towards the cam lobe so the lobe triggers the sensor everytime it passes. The sensor will in this case be boltet through the head cover.

Will try this when I get the answer from 034 how to position the sensor compared to lobe.

Did you ever successfully mount the sensor to the cover? I am currently trying to mount a cam sensor through a rocker cover, any details of how you got on would be much appreciated.

[UrS4boy]

G4 crank position sensor, G28 engine speed sensor and G40 Cam position sensor info

To help you get your head around the rolls of the OE G4 crank position sensor, G28 engine speed sensor and G40 Cam position sensor and their interactions, click on the link below and then on the G4/G28 label on the upper left and the G40 label on the left bottom row:

http://members.shaw.ca/speedtek/UrS%...ice%20Map.html

[audis293]

Did you ever successfully mount the sensor to the cover? I am currently trying to mount a cam sensor through a rocker cover, any details of how you got on would be much appreciated.

Hi,

No, I never did this actually. I modified a 7A head and fitted stock cam Hall sensor.
I had issues with VR trigger on flywheel, and when I could not get a steady 59 on VR sensor, the hall sensor also got unstable. As soon as I got VR signal under control (moved VR to front pulley) the Hall signal became good as well.
Not sure why these two somehow becomes unstable together when you only have issues with one of them.

Did you find out anything on positioning it on lobe? Got a pic how 034 did it, but only from outside of cover. See attached.