Idle issue on Vems.

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  • popdemonic
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Dec 2007
    • 1304
    • Country: Thailand

    #16
    anyone please give me some insights about Advance rate of change?

    if the RPM stays ways above 900-950rpm then everything is way just fine.no oscillation,no partially drop when let off the gas.

    when i looked up my log i found once the rpm dropped suddenly,i noticed the spark table on the bins was changed from 14deg to 25deg.

    this's kinda weird to see much changes on the spark timing.



    on the photo i use 24Deg,presently,i dialed it back to 8Deg.I seems a bit helps.
    one of a few I5 from Asia.

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    • prj
      S2Forum Zealot
      • Mar 2010
      • 6308
      • Country: Estonia

      #17
      Originally posted by popdemonic
      anyone please give me some insights about Advance rate of change?

      if the RPM stays ways above 900-950rpm then everything is way just fine.no oscillation,no partially drop when let off the gas.

      when i looked up my log i found once the rpm dropped suddenly,i noticed the spark table on the bins was changed from 14deg to 25deg.

      this's kinda weird to see much changes on the spark timing.



      on the photo i use 24Deg,presently,i dialed it back to 8Deg.I seems a bit helps.
      24 deg is too much. You will surely pass the optimal timing limit, so it would have the opposite effect, of what should happen. The max. advance you should have at 600 rpm should be 16 deg. This might also be the reason for your problem.

      Try turning ignition based idle off, set the advance at lower bins all to 8-9 degrees.
      Now tune PID so the idle is more or less decent. After this is done, turn back on ignition based idle.
      Try setting max. advance to 8 degrees, max retard to 8 degrees, threshold for activating IAC to 3 degrees, advance rate of change 12 per 256.

      Make sure that before you tune idle, that your VE map is tuned correctly and your fueling is good. If your AFR dips to 17 at 700 rpm, or something else like that, no amount of fiddling with PID/timing will help, so make sure everything is good first.
      Last edited by prj; 27 March 2012, 08:26.
      http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

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      • popdemonic
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Dec 2007
        • 1304
        • Country: Thailand

        #18
        Thanks Dmitri,I will try top give it a shot.

        Now the idle is almost perfect.only occasionally,

        the RPM sticks at lower RPM(680-700RPM).I just give it a little

        gas,the RPM will catch up well.Now I got the idle w/ AC on at 890-900RPM.

        I'd like it to stay little lower since I'm driving my car in Bangkok.most of the time,

        the car will be idling.
        one of a few I5 from Asia.

        Comment

        • popdemonic
          S2Forum Extremist
          • Dec 2007
          • 1304
          • Country: Thailand

          #19
          one thing,keep in mind I have Dr.Schrick camshafts on AAN.Any effects on tweaking the idle?

          one of my friend(Krieng) is running RS2'd with VEMS on his car. He can get almost perfect idle with similar

          tuning.
          one of a few I5 from Asia.

          Comment

          • prj
            S2Forum Zealot
            • Mar 2010
            • 6308
            • Country: Estonia

            #20
            Originally posted by popdemonic
            one thing,keep in mind I have Dr.Schrick camshafts on AAN.Any effects on tweaking the idle?

            one of my friend(Krieng) is running RS2'd with VEMS on his car. He can get almost perfect idle with similar

            tuning.
            Oh, if you have Schrick cams, then you will have to idle at around 1000-1100 rpm.
            Why do you have Shrick cams? What kind of turbo are you running now? GT35R?

            If you have the GT2871R still, then fit stock cams, it will be much better in the range the turbo is designed for on this engine, and you will be able to keep stable idle of around 750 RPM.
            http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

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            • popdemonic
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Dec 2007
              • 1304
              • Country: Thailand

              #21
              I had Motronic with Dr.Schrick cams and idle was doing flawlessly.

              I have gt2871r Ar 0.63.I suppose that should be fine with VEMS as well but it

              might a fine/proper tuning.I wish I could live in UK right now.
              one of a few I5 from Asia.

              Comment

              • prj
                S2Forum Zealot
                • Mar 2010
                • 6308
                • Country: Estonia

                #22
                Originally posted by popdemonic
                I had Motronic with Dr.Schrick cams and idle was doing flawlessly.

                I have gt2871r Ar 0.63.I suppose that should be fine with VEMS as well but it

                might a fine/proper tuning.I wish I could live in UK right now.
                What I mean is, that with a 0.63 A/R GT2871R those cams are probably making your car slower...
                But regardless, you should do one thing at a time. If you disable ignition based idle, set the map to 8 degrees, and then tune the PID for the ISV only. Do you still get the problem?

                Are you sure that your ISV valve is working 100% correctly? It could be sticking?
                http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

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                • Thuppu
                  S2Forum Freak
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 4115
                  • Country: Finland

                  #23
                  I would buy the Schricks if you are selling them.

                  Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
                  Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
                  BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
                  BMW 740iA e38 - Project

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                  • popdemonic
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 1304
                    • Country: Thailand

                    #24
                    Originally posted by prj
                    What I mean is, that with a 0.63 A/R GT2871R those cams are probably making your car slower...
                    But regardless, you should do one thing at a time. If you disable ignition based idle, set the map to 8 degrees, and then tune the PID for the ISV only. Do you still get the problem?

                    Are you sure that your ISV valve is working 100% correctly? It could be sticking?

                    Yup,I had Dr.Schrick cams in my car when I had the automatic box and stock Motronic

                    with 034 dedicated software for GT2871.One thing i noticed is i lost some of the low end

                    power with Dr.Schrick Cams but seems gaining some slightly at the top end.It ain't

                    problem to switch the camshafts to stock.I can ask my mechanic to get it done within

                    few hours.iirc, the shrick cams have 260 deg.is it too high for AAN.I think this

                    camshafts might be orginally for n/a 5cylinder since i noticed there's distributor

                    gear available at the end of the intake cam.I have 3 used ISV.anyway,it's used how

                    could we know if it's still 100% functionally.I'm taking that into account to replace it.

                    I'll try to tweak on the ign base idle page. regarding to your advice Dmitri.
                    one of a few I5 from Asia.

                    Comment

                    • popdemonic
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 1304
                      • Country: Thailand

                      #25
                      Thuppu,

                      Did you get your car started?my Dr.Schrick Camshafts only have a few thousand Kms on
                      them.







                      one of a few I5 from Asia.

                      Comment

                      • popdemonic
                        S2Forum Extremist
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 1304
                        • Country: Thailand

                        #26
                        i have tried on your configure. they're all do the same once the rpm hell down,i tried to switch my configure and yours on the fly.they're all the same.

                        I popped up the hood and using the big rock it on the isv,no worky.something must be going wrong.
                        one of a few I5 from Asia.

                        Comment

                        • popdemonic
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 1304
                          • Country: Thailand

                          #27
                          correction### I use the big rock hits on the ISC body with hope i could be sticking.no Luck finally.
                          one of a few I5 from Asia.

                          Comment

                          • prj
                            S2Forum Zealot
                            • Mar 2010
                            • 6308
                            • Country: Estonia

                            #28
                            Did you try with ignition based idle turned off?
                            http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                            Comment

                            • popdemonic
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 1304
                              • Country: Thailand

                              #29
                              definitely yes.firstly everything seems to be great once i turn the steering wheel left and right.the RPM suddenly drop to 600 RPM and it won't turn back

                              to 860 RPM anymore.I see the the timing advance to 25 deg at 600 RPM.I tried to rev the engine up.no woky just back to 600 RPM.it's kinda weird.
                              one of a few I5 from Asia.

                              Comment

                              • prj
                                S2Forum Zealot
                                • Mar 2010
                                • 6308
                                • Country: Estonia

                                #30
                                Originally posted by popdemonic
                                definitely yes.firstly everything seems to be great once i turn the steering wheel left and right.the RPM suddenly drop to 600 RPM and it won't turn back

                                to 860 RPM anymore.I see the the timing advance to 25 deg at 600 RPM.I tried to rev the engine up.no woky just back to 600 RPM.it's kinda weird.
                                So, if you turned off ignition based idle, and timing advance is going to 25 at 600 deg, then it is something else interfering.
                                If you are turning the steering left and right, and it's dropping, your PID is not tuned right.
                                Lock your timing in place(!!!), then tune the PID.
                                http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

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