Billzcat1, the maker of the excellent Short shift kit....

[rotoryboy]

Hahahaha, Billzcat1's stuff is generally top draw. Martyn wouldn't sell his stuff if it wasn't

[BRY]

No I want to know the facts before buying anything, if you have money to burn good luck to you, I don't so I stick to the facts.
Thanks for the input anyway
Very contructive - like your style - buy it or f@ck off - Nice
On comission?

[Wizard-of-OD]

No I want to know the facts before buying anything, if you have money to burn good luck to you, I don't so I stick to the facts.
Thanks for the input anyway
Very contructive - like your style - buy it or f@ck off - Nice
On comission?

Nope...Richard does most of machine work and I know the level of quality of the components he makes.Just tired of people coming out and saying.
"Hey we need an mri and cat scan pronto....lets harass the living **** out of the product while we are @ it"

Now question to you:
Suppose you buy the product and it isnt up to your "expectations" then what will you do?If you dont have money to burn then buy a kit from ecstuning/2bennett etc.
This kit is made by an enthusiast for enthusiast....dont expect any miracles.

[BRY]

Now question to you:
Suppose you buy the product and it isnt up to your "expectations" then what will you do?If you dont have money to burn then buy a kit from ecstuning/2bennett etc.
This kit is made by an enthusiast for enthusiast....dont expect any miracles.

Read my previous response
I buy things after I know the facts.
Expectations are a load of ******, if you deal with facts you don't need expectations, you know what you are buying. End of. If it's not as stated send it back - refund - thanx.
I like to know how things work, I asked a question about something I found interesting, if you don't want to answer it, fair enough, don't shoot me down for being inquisitive.

[rotoryboy]

@ Bry.... Have a look here

[billzcat1]

Ok Ok this post got far enough! Time to clear some things up.

The kit is 309x20.6mm and does use the 996 rear calipers. To be honest, I was a little hesitant at first to produce the kit since the rotor is lighter than stock and the pistons are in the caliper are smaller than stock. However, I really wanted to test it out and put a nice kit under a 16" wheel. Remember that most of us in the states don't have 5 lug so the A8 rotors are out unless you want them redrilled, and thats not ideal.

So, the 12.2 wilwood rotors had an odd sized friction surface and the 996 rear caliper fit perfectly on top of it. I put it together and sent it to Marc to test out, not knowig what to expect besides a stiffer pedal. I was quite pleased to hear he likes the kit!

What has been mentioned - brake bias. OK I'm not 100% sure if the OEM prop valve will adjust for front-rear. However, my understanding is that it biases based on a pressure differential. The Bentley reinforces this. Ideally, ALL brake upgrades require fine tuning with an adjustable bais valve - doesn't matter if you are using 8 piston Brembos or 996 calipers atop A8 rotors. If you change calipers, bias does change. Marc reports it works well with no adjustment.

Rotor mass: I don't believe in the theory that a rotor needs to weigh 22 lbs to work. In fact, these extremely heavy rotors affect the car in every way - braking, handling, ride, fuel mileage, and acceleration. Start with a high quality rotor that can shed its heat quicky without warping. Wilwood is famous over here for their race-quality rotors. The Audi rotors can handle a ton of heat no doubt, but the heat produced by pad-rotor friction is concentrated at the face of the rotor and must conduct to the center in order to take advantage of the vented nature of the rotor. The temperature throughout the rotor is far from uniform and this contributes not only to rotor warping but pad glazing. By using a lightweight rotor with good cooling passages, heat is quickly dissipated through the vanes. Conside that cooling is affected by the following: temperature differential, materials used, and the ratio of mass to surface area. This rotor has virtually the same surface area as the 314x30 rotor but is less than half the mass.

In addition, these rotor rings are very inexpensive. Cheap enough you can carry spares to the track and change them in a few minutes. Try this: $40 each. You can't even buy stock rotors for this price.

Now, yes a lighter rotor will reach higher temperatures, regardless of the better cooling you experience. For this reason I recommend pads which are suited to high temp conditions. MetalMasters, R4S, DS2500, etc. Marc has had good results with his PBRs although I don't know what compound they are.

The calipers have smaller pistons - ok. They are still considerably stiffer and better at dissipating heat than the G60s. They also have larger pads and a better selection of compounds.

I'll admit, I wasn't 100% confident at first that the kit would be as good as it is. However, testing is showing that it is working great. I'd like Marc to continue testing it out as vigorously as he feels comfortable with so I can find out how it handles abuse.

TTYL

[Henka]

Well... How would these brakes compare to the SEAT Ibiza Cupra calipers? Size of pistons and pad area? I mean, the SEAT calipers are cheap, they bolt up using RS2 brackets and the discs should be cheaper.

[billzcat1]

Pistons - smaller than the Ibiza calipers. Pad area is smaller too.

However, I am in the USA. We don't have SEATs here. Also, 99% of our B3 and B4 cars are 4-lug. There are no acceptable 4-lug rotors over here that are any larger than 11".

I feel this kit is a good option, especially for 4-lug cars and for people who appreciate losing 30 lbs from the front of their quattro. I think autocrossers should eat this kit up since it has the lower rotational inertia (from the lightweight rotor) as well.

[Audi Parts Guru]

Any chance of some close up pics of the bell housings?

[Henka]

How big are the pistons in the mentioned kit and how big are the SEAT pistons?

[billzcat1]

The rotor hats before anodizing. Also I changed the hats to be through-bolted, not threaded.


The hats after anodizing: Marc's hats are in the top left corner.


The brackets: Marc's are the 2nd from the left.


The hat and rotor assembled:



Any other pictures you will have to ask Panzerwagen. This is all I took before they left my hands.

As for piston size. I do not know the size of the SEAT calipers. I live 10,000 miles from the nearest SEAT (unless there are some in South America and even then I'm probably 10,000 miles away). I'm sure they are on the order of 36-40mm like a typical front. I also have not had the 996 calipers apart to measure the piston bore, so what I state now is what I have collected from the Internet and is not something I have confirmed. I have gathered that they are 28mm and 30mm. Yes, this is smaller than most 4-pot kits and this is why I was hesitant at first to produce this. However, the results were excellent.

I am by no means touting this at the be-all-end-all of brake kits, but it is really the only option for the 4-bolt folks that fits under a 16" wheel. On the plus side, it does not cost an arm and a leg and is inexpensive to maintain.

[billzcat1]

PS I am jealous you have such a good selection of donor cars for brake parts over there. Over here we have very little support for anything European, unless it is a Bavarian Monkey Wagon and has an M in the model name

[CR500Dom]

Nice looking kit

I have experience of Wilwood stuff on race cars, and its pretty good kit.

When you take the price into account its Excellent

You dont do a Kit to fit under 15" wheels do you ?

[kwlw]

But what about balance ?

But with these small 4 pots, the question of brake balance still exists. I mean S2 guys with their huge rear brakes will not be able to use this kit - right ?

I am going to install something similar on the B2 quattro, however a bit worried about need to install proportioning valve. Instalation is not major issue, however to get right adjustment is real PITA. If not upgraded original cq rears don't be the problem just because they are too tiny and pretty much useless . Right ?
I've seen ur style typ85 latvian rally car with original rears. So I hope it will work.

Sau

[panzerwagen]

Billzcat1's Big Brake Kit on my junker....

As you can see it fits very well thanks you.