Breakin Up!!!

[S2Roo]

Hi

S2 just failed its M.O.T on brakes!!!! I knew the front discs were gettin a bit low, and were showin a few cracks but I didn't think they would fail the M.O.T!!!

Anyway this now means's I have the pleasure of replaceing disc's and pads all round. The tester mentioned somthing about enthusiastic driving, public roads, illegal human guided ground missiles bla bla bla...

I'm keepin the standard set-up in terms of size for the moment, but does anyone have any recomendations on disc make and style, and pads.

I'm probably going to keep a standard rear set-up, and upgrade the front. I first considered cross drilled zimmerman discs and pagid fast road pads. However now I am lookin at EBC Red Stuff and Ferrodo DS2500. Any comments on discs would be much appreciated I'm lookin for maximum heat dissipation and least chance of warpining/cracking.

Cheers Roo

[dan_b]

Consensus here is the Ferrodos are the dogs dangly bits, but so is their price tag.
EBC Reds are great (I have them all round), although there's constant mention that they require a bit of heat before they really work properly. They certainly do bite like a rotweiler when warm.
EBC Greens up front probably aren't up to the job, they'll crack up and spot your discs.

Why, if you're needing to replace the brakes setup now anyway, don't you consider an upgrade, save yourself the hassle and cost of doing it twice? Porsche 4-pot calipers, A8 discs etc etc etc.

[S2Roo]

If money were no object, I'd go for some form of porsche set-up, possibly ceramic discs, however I may have to do a head gasket soon and funds are becoming somewhat tight .

I though upon purchasing my S2 I would be able to resist from boosting on the way to work, and not go on random 200 mile country lane drives just for fun . However I now have a £70 a week habbit, and I am unaware as to a cure. There seems to be no equavilent to methadone for optimax!!!!

Any ideas on discs?

Roo

[Glen Chamberlain]

I run zimmerman x drilled front discs with EBC reds and EBC greens on the rear. Good setup for the money, check out a previous thread "Poor mans brake upgrade" which i started a while back it discussed just this point!

[S2central.net]

Stock spec discs are cheap - even from Audi nowadays. I've never tried any of the aftermarket discs like Zimmermann, but there are two simple ways to improve braking (assuming you have no underlying faults with your master cylinder or servo).

1. A decent set of pads. EBC greens are OK, but aren't really up to the job due to sheer weight of the S2 when driven hard. Go with EBC Reds, or street legal sporting compounds like M1144 (?) from Mintex or the equivalent Ferodo stuff. Pagid also have some sporting compounds for road use - can't remember branding though

2. Brake fluid - when was yours last changed ? Checkout S2 Centrals brake section for some specifications on different brake fluid. The legal DOT4 requirement is not a very high spec. Castrol SRF is the best DOT4 money can buy due its thermal properties, but you need to change it at least once a year as it absorbs water faster than others.


Paul

[Ski]

whyyy ohh whyy did audi fit bmx brakes onto a 1.6 ton car (or however much it weighs)...

im a very poor man.. i got some rp fastpads for the rear, rest is standard, im replacing the bits as they fall of my car.. from the sound of things, im gonna go for the red stuff u guys mentioned above..

either way.. i was following (a bit of a race) glen few months back, and when he casually braked, i had to slam full on and even considered taking the barrier with me to avoid that HUUUUUGE avant *** (so what i mean is his setup seems to be doing the trick)

*waves* Hi glan.

Ski

[curlyks2]

I though upon purchasing my S2 I would be able to resist from boosting on the way to work, and not go on random 200 mile country lane drives just for fun. However I now have a £70 a week habbit, and I am unaware as to a cure. There seems to be no equavilent to methadone for optimax!!!!

Glad to know it's not just me As for a cure...

[s2driveruk]

Pagid Fast road are good pads, last well, are reasonably cheap for the money but they have a very high carbon content and you get black dust everywhere - nicely eats alloys for breakfast too!

Ferodo DS2500 DO NOT FIT - regardless of what Demon Tweeks will have you believe though they are a great pad!

Mintex M1144 is what I have on mine, initial bite is good, strong from cold but i think they have a high copper content and as a result are munching their way through my discs, pad depth is still ok though. - about £95 a pair though.

I'm on my second set of x-drilled front zimmerman discs and they are good value for money although i think the benefits of cross drilling may be negligable - though look good I have never managed to crack a set yet.

Pagid blue are supposed to be very good pads, quite expensive but i think are a semi racing compound so haul u up quickly but not sure how good they are from cold - should be fine.

I am trying to source a cheap upgrade to bigger brakes with these Renaultsport megane calipers i managed to get hold of - will let you know how I get on soon with more infor from renault/brembo and custom brackets from martinjs.

HTH,

David

[Ski]

wheres lee in all of this? im sure he built his own brakes..

[S2Roo]

Thanks for the help ppl

I've decided to go for a relatively cheap/standard set-up, with brembo discs and Pagid fast road pads at the front (I was going to get x drilled zimmermans but the delivery time was too long, as M.O.T has expired). I have gone for zimmermans at the rear (not x drilled) with pagid standard pads. I managed to source these makes at a relatively cheap price.

When fund's start to raise again I will go for a new caliper and bigger disc at the front, your idea sounds interestin David. However I am a big girl and do like the idea of having Porsche plastered on the side of my calipers .

This forum kicks *** for gettin opinions/help!!!!!!

Roo

[dan_b]

Re X-drilled discs - a cousin of mine is an Engineer at Jaguar working on friction issues. One of the areas he worked on was front brake design, and all the issues therein. According to them, the x-drilled discs provided nothing additional in terms of brake performance, assistance in heat-dissipation or fade-resistance. As far as they were concerned, the holes would immediately get blocked with crap, and then provided no benefit. Their recommendation was to not use them. However, the Marketing Boyz won the arguement as they "look better".
He also said to me that grooved discs did help a little, but the Marketing people preferred the look of the x-drilled ones.

[Doug_RS2]

I thought discs with holes were for pads that outgassed when hot - so the gas didn't lift the pad off the disc? That is what AP told me - the old 330mm kit had holes as the pads all outgassed - now they don't have holes as the outgassing is not a problem on modern pads they recommend.

And the grooves are for stopping the pads glazing up?

[dan_b]

I think you're right that modern pads don't gas like they used to, so there's little efficacy to be had these days with modern pads and drilled rotors, other than they look cool. Grooves do apparently help - they scrape the pad surface, preventing glazing when the pad gets hot, which should help a little.

In theory I suppose holes/grooves should help dispel surface water which can reduce the intial pedal bite?

It comes back to the fundementals though - a bigger diameter of disc, a bigger thickness of disc, more pistons, higher friction coefficient on the pads and a bigger thermal capacity in the materials used (disc material, pad material, brake fluid composition etc) are the really important factors? That's where significant gains are going to be had?

[APNess]

Grooves, whatever else they do, reduce fade dramatically. On stock discs, my brakes were good for one stamp at 130mph, then they faded to nothing. With the grooved discs, I stamped on em at 155+ (testing em you see) and could still use em normally. The current state of mine is something 'less than' stock I would say, so I'm driving like a granny. Or an avant owner, whichever is slower

Paul

[s2driveruk]

i probably agree with the cross drill arguement but many of the porsche discs have cross drills....I cannot imagine they are using them simply because the marketing dept told them too? There must be a benefit somewhere but as i said on mine i am not expecting or feeling anything specific that makes me say....ah thanks the lord for x drills

Happy hunting...

David