Weird sunroof problem

[Error404]

Got an issue with my sunroof thats now really bugging me.

It has never worked properly, it only goes up to the tilt position, or goes forward - won't retract or return back down from the tilt position. I've got total closure on the sunroof which works fine, it will close the roof from tilt and from retracted positions no problem so I know the motor works in both directions, and it all seems smooth and no creaking, goraning etc etc.

I've tried the big 285 relay with 2 other known good ones and no joy, also tried two different switches and relays up by the motor with other known good ones with no joy, still the same - doesn't want to play.

This is how the total closure is wired in - yellow & red and red & black wires are cut and each end wired into the 4 wires from the total closure module.



I tried disconnecting the total closure from the wiring circuit and joining the wires back together but no joy - still only goes up on the swtich and will close forwards from the retracted position if i wind it back

I'm not that good with electrics and can't understand wiring diagrams so i'm all out of ideas - can anyone suggest anything to check? this is really ******* me off

Cheers
Alex

[S2central.net]

What year is yours Alex ?

A coupe I presume - with or without preselect ?

[S2central.net]

I'm impressed that anyone managed to get new wires up there for the total closure option - not so easy as you might think.

[Rusty]

Have you checked the operation of the microswitches, that's what got fried on mine. The Blue and Blue/Black wires should be switched live on the ignition unless at an end stop in which case one or other will go dead.

[Error404]

Its a 1990 car Paul, probably made in 89, not sure on the correct model year - how would i find that out?

Its just a normal sunroof not preselect or anything fancy


Where are these microswitches Andy, and how to I test them?

[Rusty]

Just leave it all plugged in and in the closed position and stick a multimeter on the two wires I mentioned.

I've had to play sunroofs this week, had a new motor to fit but it turned out to be different wiring, even though EKTA said it was interchangeable... so I just cut out the witing and removed the switch by drilling the rivets, then I soldered it into the wiring loom on my motor and having just tested it, it all works a treat!

Head lining is all back in now, nice and clean and fresh smelling! Just need to wipe it over to get rid of the inevitable finger prints. Should have fitted a black one really but £ are destined for other things.

[Error404]

cool - i'll try those wires

Where are the micro switches? In the motor unit itself?

[S2central.net]

I need to do some demystifying on this one... The only schematics I have for non-preselect sunroof are these - http://www.s2central.net/S2_Schematics/E/E19.PDF - which seem to line up functionally at least with Bentley doodles for US models.

Andy is right about the microswitches - they are designed to interrupt power for the close function when the sunroof is closed, and vice versa for open when it reaches the end stop.

WIth the sunroof closed you should see 12V at all four terminals of that multipin block...
If you dont see 12V at T4k/3 & 4 then microswitch E60 is playing up.
If you only get 12 V at T4k/3 & 4 then the main switch itself (E8) is bad.

When you press OPEN you should see 0V at T4k/2
and then when you press CLOSE you should see 0V at T4k/1

The thing that bugs me is I only see reference to sliding operation of the sunroof - nothing for the tilt... maybe this is a hidden subtlety of E56 or E60 that is not jumping off the page - I've never tested this area before. It has always worked fine for me - famous last words.

The reason your total closure system is able to work must be cos it is bypassing all the switches and applying 12V across pins T4k/1 & 2 in a way as to drive the motor directly... wouldn't surprise me if it is popping the thermal fuse when the microswitch registers closed.... ding - light bulb - or maybe the short circuit thru that switch has burnt it out by way of total closure operation ?

[Rusty]

The switch operation is detailed in that scematic, it takes studying a unit + wiring though to get to the bottom of it.

Winding the motor is a difficult one as the sunroof wiring is a little complex and the switch does more than just switched +ve, it does -ve too. I blew the microswitch by shorting something so it's possible that your total closure has done that for, you so to speak.

[S2central.net]

I am fairly sure the total closure has shortened the life of the microswitch due to the non-elegant way it has been wired in.

The open/close switch for the sunroof is the same type as used on power windows. Pressing open provides 12V in one polarity (drives motor one way) while pressing close provides 12V across the motor in opposite polarity... assisted by relay J72 up there too of course.

If I get time to look at this one with a proper 'DMG' then I'll try to do my best with some simple test procedures and description of how it works.

[Error404]

Thanks for the info guys. Suffice to say it is a factory fitted VAG Quantum security suystem so no wonder the wiring is questionable
TBH I've got no quarms with binning the TC at the sunroof if its causing problems. Are the microswitches replaceable or are they part of the motor itself, or elsewhere?

My multimeter is dead so i'm going to get another one and do some testing

[Rusty]

You can replace them but you need to get them off a motor so might as well just replace it. Once of the microswitches off the D model I got was the same as the C model required for my car, the other wasn't and the relay wiring was different too, luckily I was able to make 2 into 1 working unit

[Error404]

Sorted this - you were right it was one of the microswitches had come apart - put him back together and works fine now. cheers for the advice guys

[Rusty]

I got well lucky and got a sunroof motor from a free parts stand at ADI Don't know if it works yet tho

[Bram]

nevermind, I think solved my sunroof issue