MAF for 500 hp...?

[prj]

And every time if you want to do a change on the car setup you have go to somebody who knows motronic or has the right software.....

I like it how you think that you spent 800 EUR so you are now an uber tuner.
Well guess what - you can't buy knowledge and you can't buy experience. And you will still need dyno time with your car, so you still will need to go to someone who has a dyno and knows how to professionally tune.
Perfect proof is that you can't get your car's warmup right.

You should never buy a standalone, because you want to "save" on tuning. Tuning a standalone properly will be much more expensive in the long run, unless you are a professional tuner.

Also, what kind of change on your cars setup? A MAF based system is much more resistant to changes than speed density.
If you change turbo and port your head, your speed density based system will need a full re-tune on a dyno.

[prj]

hm..
or maybe Dmitri do some crazy MAF which will be good for 1000 HP.. (from Opel 1.2)

I can tune M2.3.2 to ~550-600hp already using RS4 MAF.
If you want more, you should go standalone, and also throw everything out from your car, because more than 600hp on 2.2 is a drag car...

[rs200]

I can tune M2.3.2 to ~550-600hp already using RS4 MAF.
If you want more, you should go standalone, and also throw everything out from your car, because more than 600hp on 2.2 is a drag car...

with CT356 I cant expect more than 500 hp.. and I will need that car for every day..

so Dmitri you can do it from RS4 MAF.. that will be good.. we will be in touch...
Dmitri I beleve in you very much...

[prj]

I have three cars to do with GT3076's on the new MAF in Spring anyway.

[rs200]

thats good.. on rs4 MAF?

[prj]

thats good.. on rs4 MAF?

Yep.

[rs200]

you will come to Croatia to do remap on my car.. everithing will be ready and waiting to Dmitri's final touch.. deal?

[prj]

you will come to Croatia to do remap on my car.. everithing will be ready and waiting to Dmitri's final touch.. deal?

We can talk about that after I get some 3076 graphs posted.

[rs200]

ok no problem.. I will finish my car in 6. or 7. month.. so than in August you are welcome..

[A80Avant]

the difference on a standalone is that many different tuners can do it, while motronic only a few, and if someone from anywhere in europe had to get you Dmitri everytime they changed a cam timing or did a bit more cyl. porting, or changed an exhaust or a turbo or intercooler, the costs of getting you on a plane to come and finetune the new setup would be much more than using a standalone and doing the tuning yourself (or if you dont have the time or patience to learn,then asking any tuner closer to you to do it for you).

That is the + of the standalone, while the - is the fact that certain areas of the tune that motronic does, can never be adequately reached. They can be very close, and its all down to compromises.
If you ask me who i have had experience with both motronic tunes(by someone else of course) and VEMS on my own with help from studying, reading and testing, i would say that under the circomstances i still choose VEMS for the ease to continue to upgrade whilst not requiring to bring someone from germany for a retune everytime, BUT if i had the change/money/patience to learn the motronic, i could have possibly try to tune the motronic myself. I found tuning VEMS easier, so i went for it.

IN simple terms:
If you decide to buy all parts for a setup and keep it without continuesly upgrading it, then get prj to tune it for you with the motronic and a bigger maf and you are done.
If you plan to change parts as you go and always have a different tune for it, then the standalone will eventually be cheaper and easier to have, regardless of the initial cost, esp. when you can find standalones which are very cheap to begin with.

[prj]

the difference on a standalone is that many different tuners can do it, while motronic only a few, and if someone from anywhere in europe had to get you Dmitri everytime they changed a cam timing or did a bit more cyl. porting, or changed an exhaust or a turbo or intercooler, the costs of getting you on a plane to come and finetune the new setup would be much more than using a standalone and doing the tuning yourself (or if you dont have the time or patience to learn,then asking any tuner closer to you to do it for you).

I agree. Too bad not that many people can tune this system.
It's a lot easier with ME7. Pretty much all the specs are leaked, so it's just about sitting down and learning.

IN simple terms:
If you decide to buy all parts for a setup and keep it without continuesly upgrading it, then get prj to tune it for you with the motronic and a bigger maf and you are done.
If you plan to change parts as you go and always have a different tune for it, then the standalone will eventually be cheaper and easier to have, regardless of the initial cost, esp. when you can find standalones which are very cheap to begin with.

Of course it depends if you have someone nearby who can tune Motronic.
In the UK and Germany you have plenty of people for example, so a standalone is not worth it unless you want to learn to tune yourself. Learning on a 500hp+ expensive engine is not a very good idea either.

[A80Avant]

it depends how committed you are.
I am not a tuner, and still learn as i go. It has taken me 8+ months but in the mean time i havent burnt the engine down!

on the other hand in greece, they dont even have the emulators to tune the old motronics. so when i go back there, it will be more expensive to pay airline tickets to tuners!

[rs200]

thanks for good interpretation of my situation. well to be honest with you..
every **** on that car I did by my self. before few years I even have NO internet. I even don't know that my car have self diagnostic "blink code" .. what is that??? I'm in proces of learning.. and I learn very quick.. this is not a problem.

for now I'm waiting for my first wideband lamda probe.. you all know very well what it is and how they work.. but for me it is high level of magic. (for now).
I will find out.. but step by step.. I would like to have somebody who will show me the first step of engine menagment.. motronic or VEMS , or something.. I know that Motronic is complicated..
I have a guts to take some standalone ,bring it in my car and find out what is the point.. but I don't know which one to choose and what is the good start..
I would like to learn something , but I think that 1. time somebody have to show how to do it.. or 1. step.. I don't know..
do you understand me?
who can learn me?

[rs200]

09.2006 i both that car - audi 200 20v , at that time I even don't know what is alternator, or starter , or ignition coil.
02.2007. I go to rebuilt that engine with my friend. than was my first time that I have a piston or rods in my hand..this engine will be good until today, but we didn't change the rods.. and we put a pin on flywheel on wrong place (don't ask HOW)..in the main time i got the internet , and find for this lovely forum.. and find lot of things about my car..
04.2009. my engine blow away , nothing special.. banana rods kill my engine block.
06.2009 my second engine rebuilt with H rods, only me my self and S2 forum.. for now everithing is fine , engine go gret.
02.2010. my first engine loom swap from 3b to aan.. and I'm very proud on my self , because I'm first who did that in my country. after that I done that job 4 times on other audi 200 20v cars. my only guide was .. who ? s2forum..
this is my little history of me and my audi.. and I will allways go further.. my next step is tuning to 500hp with CT355 . I could do everithing acept REMAPING.. this is my thoughts for now.. maybe next year at that time I will do remap on somebody else car.. who nows ..

but only thing is true , that I appreciate people on s2 forum too much.. you are allwais here when I need you.
BIG THANKS to everibody..
Igor

[prj]

Engine management is just a tool.
Be it Motronic or VEMS.
M2.3.2 is actually not that complicated, the problem is that all information is secret.

If you want to learn about tuning, start reading books about forced induction engines.
When tuning you need to understand the exact reasoning for every little change that you are making. You can't mess around and hope it works.

This is true for any engine management system.