AIR / FUEL ratio...issue..

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  • rs200
    S2Forum Extremist
    • May 2009
    • 1398
    • Home: Croatia

    #1

    AIR / FUEL ratio...issue..

    hy.
    yesterday I finally get wide band lambda sensor in my car..

    and I think that running lean ..
    at idle (hot engine) 14.10-14.80..
    normal drive 16.05-14.50 , than slowly accelerating from 2k - 4.5k rpm (low boost 0.1-0.4bar) and values where 14.80-13.09.
    at WOT ,full boost ,first 15.40 ,13.30 , and in one moment at 6000rpm 12.30..
    I think that is lean..
    what can cause that problem , and how to fix that..


    can you please tell us how is on your car, that I can compare with my car..


    thanks
  • prj
    S2Forum Zealot
    • Mar 2010
    • 6308
    • Country: Estonia

    #2
    Uhm, it would be nice if you would take some logs.
    Not write what numbers you see...

    Also, comparing these values between cars is pretty useless. It depends on many things - IAT, fuel quality, coolant temp to name a few.
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    • willg54
      S2Forum Fiend
      • Jun 2009
      • 2055
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      14.7 would be stoichiometric. under that would be rich, over that would be lean.
      1996 Audi S2 - 295bhp and 326lb/ft - Complete Rebuild Project

      1994 Audi 80 - 2.0 8v (slow but reliable!)

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      • prj
        S2Forum Zealot
        • Mar 2010
        • 6308
        • Country: Estonia

        #4
        Originally posted by willg54
        14.7 would be stoichiometric. under that would be rich, over that would be lean.
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        • Rocco
          S2Forum Zealot
          • Aug 2007
          • 6393
          • Country: Spain

          #5
          Originally posted by prj



          with WOT we need 11 to 12.3 (more or less) with normal 98 ron fuel..as a base

          14.7AFR with WOT will destroy the car
          RED Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI TME nº 16 of 250
          BLACK Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI TME nº 189 of 250
          LWB Audi Sport Quattro project

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          • willg54
            S2Forum Fiend
            • Jun 2009
            • 2055
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            Originally posted by prj
            was just stating how to define lean and rich! realise at WOT 14.7 would destroy it!
            1996 Audi S2 - 295bhp and 326lb/ft - Complete Rebuild Project

            1994 Audi 80 - 2.0 8v (slow but reliable!)

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            • prj
              S2Forum Zealot
              • Mar 2010
              • 6308
              • Country: Estonia

              #7
              Originally posted by willg54
              was just stating how to define lean and rich! realise at WOT 14.7 would destroy it!
              Yeah, that's how a narrowband sensor sees it, not how it is used when describing mapping an engine though.
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              • willg54
                S2Forum Fiend
                • Jun 2009
                • 2055
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                Originally posted by prj
                Yeah, that's how a narrowband sensor sees it, not how it is used when describing mapping an engine though.
                please educate us...how is it used when mapping an engine?
                1996 Audi S2 - 295bhp and 326lb/ft - Complete Rebuild Project

                1994 Audi 80 - 2.0 8v (slow but reliable!)

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                • prj
                  S2Forum Zealot
                  • Mar 2010
                  • 6308
                  • Country: Estonia

                  #9
                  Originally posted by willg54
                  please educate us...how is it used when mapping an engine?
                  By your logic an engine always runs rich.
                  In the current context "rich" is meant as "too rich" and "lean" is meant as "too lean".
                  Maybe that makes sense to you.

                  Example:
                  Running 10 AFR under 1 bar boost would be referred to as running rich, running 14 under the same condition would be referred to as running lean.
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                  • willg54
                    S2Forum Fiend
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 2055
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Originally posted by prj
                    By your logic an engine always runs rich.
                    In the current context "rich" is meant as "too rich" and "lean" is meant as "too lean".
                    Maybe that makes sense to you.

                    Example:
                    Running 10 AFR under 1 bar boost would be referred to as running rich, running 14 under the same condition would be referred to as running lean.

                    Our formula student defo runs lean on a lean map >14.7. we use lambda more so tend to map for 1.05 lambda for lean. all varies through the rpm and throttle % to get the BMEP we want. rest of the time we're at 0.88-0.9

                    so basically you're saying you refer to lean and rich around the 'ideal' AFR of the rpm/boost/throttle site?

                    sorry for hi-jacking the thread
                    1996 Audi S2 - 295bhp and 326lb/ft - Complete Rebuild Project

                    1994 Audi 80 - 2.0 8v (slow but reliable!)

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                    • prj
                      S2Forum Zealot
                      • Mar 2010
                      • 6308
                      • Country: Estonia

                      #11
                      Originally posted by willg54
                      so basically you're saying you refer to lean and rich around the 'ideal' AFR of the rpm/boost/throttle site?
                      Exactly. This is how it is referred to most of the time when tuning...
                      Really, just replace your definitions of "rich" and "lean" with "too rich" and "too lean" and you'll arrive at the same point.
                      "Ideal" AFR does not really exist though... too many variables, but that's nitpicking.
                      http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

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                      • willg54
                        S2Forum Fiend
                        • Jun 2009
                        • 2055
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Originally posted by prj
                        Exactly. This is how it is referred to most of the time when tuning...
                        Really, just replace your definitions of "rich" and "lean" with "too rich" and "too lean" and you'll arrive at the same point.
                        "Ideal" AFR does not really exist though... too many variables, but that's nitpicking.
                        Cheers
                        1996 Audi S2 - 295bhp and 326lb/ft - Complete Rebuild Project

                        1994 Audi 80 - 2.0 8v (slow but reliable!)

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                        • rs200
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • May 2009
                          • 1398
                          • Home: Croatia

                          #13
                          one stupid question .. I'm NEW in that..

                          what is 0.89, 0.90, 1.05 lambda? 14.7 is 1.00 lambda , and under it or upper is AFR in % ? or ?
                          thanks..

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                          • willg54
                            S2Forum Fiend
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 2055
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            Lambda is Actual AFR / Stoichiometric AFR
                            1996 Audi S2 - 295bhp and 326lb/ft - Complete Rebuild Project

                            1994 Audi 80 - 2.0 8v (slow but reliable!)

                            Comment

                            • prj
                              S2Forum Zealot
                              • Mar 2010
                              • 6308
                              • Country: Estonia

                              #15
                              Lambda is AFR divided by Stoichometric AFR.
                              Because stoichometric AFR is different for different types of fuels, it makes more sense to actually note lambda.

                              For example the Stoichometric AFR for gasoline is around 14.7. For E85 it is around 9.8.
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