Towards a 3rd Brake Light Bulb Improvement (or Not)

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  • UrS4boy
    S2Forum Obsessed
    • Feb 2006
    • 11859
    • Country: Canada

    #1

    Towards a 3rd Brake Light Bulb Improvement (or Not)

    In Canada, all vehicles manufactured at 1987 model years or later have to have a 3rd (upper, center) brake light in order to be registered. My 94 S4 V8 avant never had one from the factory because it went from Germany to Japan in 1994 and never left until it was sold to a Canadian (not me) in 2010. When the car reached Canada, someone added a very sketchy third breaklight with some tiny LED stick on strips. It always caused a "Brems Licht" warning in the autocheck and the wiring was also very sketchy. I fixed the wiring but but I hated the sketchiness of the install. As a result, I have been trying to figure out a solution using VAG parts (VW Golf, Jetta, maybe Passat and Audi). The latest attempt involves a C4 sedan third brake light that came from the factory with ten 2.3W bulbs. I will have to relay this off the left rear taillight using the trailer connection tab on the lamp holder.

    One of the issues is this all has to fit inside of the very tinted (OE "crome vaporized" (or chrome smoked)) glass on the non-spoiler hatch of the 94 V8 S4 avant.



    This post looks at the latest iteration of this "game", possibly using an OE UrS4/S6 sedan third brake light assembly that would be screwed to the upper middle hatch trim strip (which snaps into OE holes in the hatch).

    I had visited a LED shop last week and but didn't have the OE UrS4/S6 brake light assembly with me. Yesterday I went back with the strip. I told them what I wanted and in about 10 minutes and $12.16 later, I was out the door with a 15 LED light strip temporarily installed behind the OE red lens. They suggested that the 15 LEDs were the equivalent of 30W (??). (Seems low)

    The following steps everything back and shows the process.

    This is the OE C4 sedan 3rd brake light assembly (in this example, from a 95 UrS6). The assembly is clipped to two brackets that are bonded to the rear glass. The assembly will come off and, to do the LED conversion as will be shown here, it would have to come off to access the front lens area.



    The OE third brake light assembly can be broken down into its components:



    This photo shows the 15 LED light strip (stuck to an aluminum bar to keep everything nice and straight) about to be installed into the OE third brake light base



    But first, I better show the comparison between the 10, 2.3W OE light strip (outside of the assembly) and the 15 LED light strip, both powered by the same 12V supply.



    The photo actually makes the OE bulbs look brighter than they were. In reality, they looked very dull compared to the LEDs.

    I only had these lights on for a few minutes while I took the photo. I had to check the LEDs for heat, so I touched them. Cool. Then, not thinking, I touched an OE bulb. OOOWWWWch. Fugg! Darn near burned myself. Yikes. Okay, LEDs win the heat issue.

    Okay, back to the plot: here is the 15 LED light strip installed behind the OE red lens. For my application for the avant, I need the wires to go out the back (in a normal sedan application, you'd run the wires out the front in the little OE wire channel). I initially drilled a small hole beside the left most chrome reflector and ran the wires out there. Worked sort of but the light strip didn't sit in the assembly 100% so I disassembled and ran the wires out through the empty bulb hole in the left most OE reflector.



    Here is a close up of the LED strip behind the OE red lens.



    Okay, now the results. I waited until dusk to do this. Unfortunately, I didn't have two assemblies so I had to trial one at a time. I can't even remember which one got trialled first. I don't know if the results shown in the composite photo below are representative of both or not. It does show that the OE reflectors do tend to multiply the visual impact of those 2.3W bulbs by a large factor. I am going to carry on with the LEDs if only because once installed, I shouldn't have to go back and change the LED strip for a long time.

    YMMV



    BTW, this would probably be a slam dunk with the OE hatch 3rd brake light with its easier access to the bulb holder. Not sure if the lack of resistance would trigger at check bulb warning on the autocheck if the vehicle was originally equipped with third brake light.

    RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
    94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant
  • Vorsprung durch Technik
    S2Forum Freak
    • Jun 2007
    • 4754
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    Hi Dave,great write up as usall.I have a question though.... unless i have missed something. I don't understand why your using a sedan bulb holder?Why not use the unit from C4 A6 estate like whats on my March 97 2.8 30V estate which sits inside at the top of the hatch and is very easy to get at.Just unclip the top balck plastic inside trim at the top to reveal the third brake light. I prefer the bulbs.... it just looks much better to me.
    Last edited by Vorsprung durch Technik; 8 June 2014, 16:07.
    96 URS6 plus speck saloon
    96 URS6 plus speck estate
    94 2.6 80 Avant
    99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

    Comment

    • UrS4boy
      S2Forum Obsessed
      • Feb 2006
      • 11859
      • Country: Canada

      #3
      Originally posted by Vorsprung durch Technik
      I have a question though.... unless i have missed something. I don't understand why your using a sedan bulb holder?Why not use the unit from C4 A6 estate like whats on my March 97 2.8 30V estate which sits inside at the top of the hatch and is very easy to get at.Just unclip the top black plastic inside trim at the top to reveal the third brake light.
      Huh? This is on a non-spoiler C4 hatch? I have never seen what you are talking about. All the C4 avants/estates that came to NAmerica had the external spoiler with the third (external) brake light. Can you post some photos of what you have? (Please)

      RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
      94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

      Comment

      • Vorsprung durch Technik
        S2Forum Freak
        • Jun 2007
        • 4754
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        Just about to have Roast beef yorkshire pud (a sunday roast) as soon as finished will take pictures.
        96 URS6 plus speck saloon
        96 URS6 plus speck estate
        94 2.6 80 Avant
        99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

        Comment

        • UrS4boy
          S2Forum Obsessed
          • Feb 2006
          • 11859
          • Country: Canada

          #5
          Originally posted by Vorsprung durch Technik
          Just about to have Roast beef yorkshire pud (a sunday roast) as soon as finished will take pictures.
          Mmm... I lubbs Yorksheershire pudding. Enjoy.

          Curious about the photos. PNs would be good if you can find them too.

          RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
          94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

          Comment

          • Vorsprung durch Technik
            S2Forum Freak
            • Jun 2007
            • 4754
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            Originally posted by UrS4boy
            Mmm... I lubbs Yorksheershire pudding. Enjoy.

            Curious about the photos. PNs would be good if you can find them too.

            Roast Beef dinner with Yorkshire puddings was scrumptious MMM

            Dave,asking me for part numbers coming from you i am surprised given the only way i could do that would be to pull it apart.I am sure they are at your fingertips excuse the pun.

            If you could achieve this look it would be the perfect OEM look and be awesome IMO. Not cheap as you would need the rear hatch glass too.Here's the photos.




            [IMG]http://www.s2forum.com/forum/attachment.php?
            attachmentid=47223&d=1402248772[/IMG]


            Attached Files
            Last edited by Vorsprung durch Technik; 8 June 2014, 17:50.
            96 URS6 plus speck saloon
            96 URS6 plus speck estate
            94 2.6 80 Avant
            99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

            Comment

            • UrS4boy
              S2Forum Obsessed
              • Feb 2006
              • 11859
              • Country: Canada

              #7
              Mmm...and Hmmm.... Very nice. Perfect. Didn't know that even existed. Now I am on a new hunt. Do you think those were ever on an UrS4? I will need to source the bits out of the UK or Europe. I'll ask my friend Kate about PNs but she never mentioned anything to me before when I asked about 3rd brake lights. Maybe I didn't ask the right question. Stay tuned.

              Hope the pud was good. Roast beast AND Yorksheershire pud (and gravy no doubt) Mmmm..

              Thanks for the photos

              RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
              94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

              Comment

              • Vorsprung durch Technik
                S2Forum Freak
                • Jun 2007
                • 4754
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                I am parting this car out dave. Crazy i know but i will never find the mint bits on this car i need and even if i could it will be expensive and take so much time and effort trying to find when i need the money and time for my other audis. I have a brand new rear screen for it too if your interested.
                96 URS6 plus speck saloon
                96 URS6 plus speck estate
                94 2.6 80 Avant
                99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

                Comment

                • UrS4boy
                  S2Forum Obsessed
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 11859
                  • Country: Canada

                  #9
                  Okay. Now I am just mad. Kate showed me the info in question before but she did not tell me what it meant and, because I didn't understand that Audi did an internal hatch 3rd brake light, I didn't figure it out on my own. <kicks own butt>

                  Here are the parts in question (I think):

                  The light, Item 8 (I saw that before but didn't understand the diagram - Duh).




                  The hatch trims. Obviously there are at least three flavours of this. Plain vanilla (no 3rd brake light), with chocolate syrup (with 3rd brake light) and with chocolate syrup and sprinkles (with 3rd brake light AND roller blind). Yours will be the last one Mark.

                  RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                  94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                  Comment

                  • Vorsprung durch Technik
                    S2Forum Freak
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 4754
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Good find putting this information up.
                    96 URS6 plus speck saloon
                    96 URS6 plus speck estate
                    94 2.6 80 Avant
                    99 2.8 final edition Cabriolet

                    Comment

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