Audi RS2 no starter

[Billman]

Hi, what relay is responsible for the starter button?

[UrS4boy]

J219 starting interlock relay info?

Hi, what relay is responsible for the starter button?

Button?

There is an ignition switch which takes 12V current to a solenoid on the starter that then engages the starter motor and gear with the flywheel ring gear.

In the middle of that, the central locking system does play into it via the J219 starting relay.

J219 info: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/270532.phtml

[Billman]

Yes I meant the solenoid! So, in the RS2 it maybe it is the same relay? I thought mybe it is the 213 relay in the engine compartment fusebox X-relay also called relief relay. Dont know if it is a coincidence but when I took it off shake it a bit and then on again the car started. With cold engine compartment ect starts normally.

[UrS4boy]

Yes I meant the solenoid! So, in the RS2 it maybe it is the same relay? I thought mybe it is the 213 relay in the engine compartment fusebox X-relay also called relief relay. Dont know if it is a coincidence but when I took it off shake it a bit and then on again the car started.

The 213 "relief" relay is the load reduction relay, not the starter interlock relay, at least on a C4. The C4 interlock relay is a "204". For the RS2, I would guess that this is the "204" in the "Control Unit Shift Lock" position.

C4 213 info:

[Billman]

I am going to check it in a couple of hours and report back.

It happend again with warm engien some months ago and after 10 minutes or so it worked again. Today the same happened.

Do you have a picture and description of the relay panel on the footwell of the RS2?

[UrS4boy]

Here is the RS2 ignition switch wiring pdf (not the red/black wiring going off to F50/Z in the upper right corner of the diagram:

http://www.s2central.net/S2_Schematics/D/D44-07.pdf

Here is the RS2 starter motor wiring pdf (note that the power from the ignition switch "D" goes into an unnamed relay in the cross-hatched area before emerging as a black wire that goes through a "T1" connector and emerges as a red/black wire that runs to terminal "50" on the starter "B" solenoid):

http://www.s2central.net/S2_Schematics/B/B73-01.pdf

[johne]

The 213 "relief" relay is the load reduction relay, not the starter interlock relay, at least on a C4. The C4 interlock relay is a "204". For the RS2, I would guess that this is the "204" in the "Control Unit Shift Lock" position.

C4 213 info:

No.

This is a S2/RS2 forum so "I guess" and C4 related stuff is not always helpful....

There is no interlock relay or 204 relay in the control shift lock position because all S2s and RS2s are manual cars and this feature is for automatics - as your own illustration says. Likewise the central locking unit plays no part in the cranking of an S2/RS2.

The start circuit - as in the circuit to energise the starter motor and crank over the engine is very simple. The ignition key energises the solenoid on the starter motor and the starter motor powers up. No relays.

There are other circuits such as the immobiliser on later cars that determine if the engine will run, but they don't interfere with if the engine is actually going to crank over or not. Likewise the X relay is there to reduce the load on the battery during starting but doesn't play any part in if the starter motor will crank the engine.

John

[UrS4boy]

This is a S2/RS2 forum so "I guess" and C4 related stuff is not always helpful....John

Gee thanks for pointing that out. I never knew. I assume that there are many C4 UrS4/S6 owner members here that will be equally shocked and surprized that this is an exclusive S2/RS2 forum.

That said...the "problem" is sometimes quite a lot of the C4 UrS stuff transfers directly to the S2/RS2. I was just trying to show Billman how there might be issues related to the S2/RS2 "J219" equivalent *IF* one existed.

..There is no interlock relay or 204 relay in the control shift lock position because all S2s and RS2s are manual cars and this feature is for automatics - as your own illustration says. Likewise the central locking unit plays no part in the cranking of an S2/RS2.

I have no idea whether that is true or not BUT amazingly (according to your logic) my fully manual UrS4 has the 204 "J219" shift lock position relay *AND* it is attached to the central locking control module. If the central locking system is not happy, the car will NOT start. BTDT.

Please carry on helping Billman find his solution because apparently nothing I said or the info I provided (including the RS2 wiring diagram links) could have possibly helped him.

[Billman]

Please people, as UrS4boy said many things are transfered from the one model to the other so that gives always a good start.

Apart from the above UrS4boy's knowledge and documentation is beyond anyone else together and I personally have/had to thank him/thanked him many times!

So to the issue: the RS2 fusebox on my car looks like this:


As you can see there is just a jumper and no relay.

[irishs2]

Not sure if you considered it, but the last thing to fail on my avant before work started was the ignition switch, and its worked fine upto the point of trying to turn over the engine.
Just throwing that out there.

[UrS4boy]

Billman: Have to agree with Eric. Seeing as you have a jumper and no "219" interlock relay, you are going to have to start by checking for power at the solenoid with the ignition switch turned to "START"

[Billman]

Ignition switch is 2 weeks old.

I am going to check the solenoid when I go back home vacatio but guess what????

Today I got stranded (at least for ten minutes)!!!!

As I was driving on the highway when pressing the clutch pedal to go from fifth to sixth it just stayed down. The clucht was engaged so I could not go to any gear.

After putting the warn sign and way about to call raid assistance I simply pulled the clutch back up and after that everything was as normal!!! WTF????

Clutch disc, plate and bearing are 17000km old.

Collected the warning sign and when I tried to start the car again no cranking. Pulled the 213 relay out it was very hot. Shaked it and hold it a bit 30 secs or so to cool down.

Put it in and started normally. With cold engine/compartment it starts everytime.

[UrS4boy]

Clutch pedal failure modes and Clutch Master and Slave info

That 213 relief (load reduction) relay is sticking on (or something). Replace it ASAP.

As for your clutch problem, it is most likely the slave cylinder.

Here is some reading for you:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/24719.phtml

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/186276.phtml

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/41316.phtml

[Billman]

Do you know if its electronics are the same as in other more common automotive relays?

@off topic
Does the slave cylinder lost pressure somehow and then started to work again? Shouldn't it stay off all the times? The fact that it worked is nice because instead of the road I am now here (see pic) but it shouldn't work.

[UrS4boy]

213 Load Reduction (x-contact relief) relay info

Do you know if its electronics are the same as in other more common automotive relays?

I think it is basically the same as any 4 pin automotive relay. However, the amperage is 60 or 70 Amps so it is probably more robust than say a 30 Amp relay. There are two colour versions of the "213", one grey, one black.

Grey 70 Amp 213:







Black 60 Amp 213: