Gong nuts on my 200 20V with the headlamp washers

[domas]

Hi Guys.
Sorry it took some time to get back to you.

Hi there
no worries, you need help, not us so its fine : )

I finally finished my A/C issue. No more clicking and system is working beautifully.

Changed the 4 pin to 5-PIN A/C clutch relay, I changed the motor for the temperature flap and I put in a new low pressure sensor as in its place, there was a high pressure switch.

Congrats on that. Did you also perform R12 to r134a conversion? I did, but even after that (cleaning the system, changing the drier, rebuilding compressor) my compressor is still leaky.

About the equipment codes, I have forgot about it each time, but next time I visit the mechanic, I will sure make a picture of them.

Don't expect to find something too exciting there but it is definitely interesting.

Re Bose, see the next post as i hate manually multi quoting messages

[domas]

Regarding Bose,

well the system is not too complicated after all.
It must have engraved bose on the facia of the head unit if it is oem 1din radio. else it may not work.
The key here is the outputs of the radio. Gala and **** should not matter here. That being said, this is gamma CC BOSE radio

This is gamma CC non bose radio, will not work in your case due to missing line out outputs.

This one is also bose radio even though it does not say it is bose on its face. I actually have one with dead laser and dead outputs..

This is very rare and expensive radio, also for bose system:

The key here is the amplified outputs. You need 4 line outs.

Lets take my car as example. My car has normal (passive) speakers in the front and 2 amplified speakers in the back. So ideally the radio output should look like this:

1st row has 2 line outs (non amplified outputs), which is in the same way as if it was in bose. they are marked on 10 pin iso connector as line out R and L
And it has normal amplified outputs for the front speakers, middle row 8pin iso connector, 4 middle pins feed 2 passive speakers in the front.
The bose system needs 4 line outs in the 10 pin connector like there:

This is an example of audi gamma CC bose which is capable of controlling cd changer - middle row that is normally used for amplified outputs is dedicated to the cd changer control

If it is a discussion about 2 gamma CD models, none of them had amplified outputs and CD changer control. so on both radios the middle row is blank.


What I guess was done in your car, is most likely that somebody have installed aftermarket radio with normal amplified outputs and have added/changed speakers to non bose OR
Or the have installed an adapter which weakens the amplified signal to pre-amp level so bose system can still be used. I had this done in my car, it was to rear speakers only as I have normal speakers in the front.

This is an adapter I am talking about:


But please take clear, focused pictures of everything. Lets hope that your wiring is unmolested and only modded with adapters like above.

[200t]

Hi Domas.
Thanks for the info.

First of all, the Gamma Bose I have is a US version, so it is slightly different, it doesn´t have the GALA and FM/AM buttons are similar but writeen differently.

Here is a picture of the actual model I have ( see picture).

Other odd things is that, hter is actual power for the speakers. For what I have read, speakers would actually work as the output is amplified, as the contrary of the BOSE, which is not, and that the voltage is 12V instead of being 2v ( on Bose).
So, meaning that the speakers would get distroyed if used.....This is actually how they were before having them refurbished.

So, based on your diagrams, I would only need the last pins going to the speakers ( out of the last connector on the second diagram posted), but I am still puzzled about those green cables, which would seem to go in the middle connector on the middle connector of the first diagram.

Anyhow, the previous owner seemed to have had issues with that unit and got a GAMMA ( non BOSE ) thniking that it could work.
Ther are alos a couple of speakers on the IP, which were also wired but don´t seem to work.
Anyhow, the thing is that, all functions do work ( have not cheked yet the IC display but the current GAMMA CC ( non bose) does have that, so I imagine it should work.

So, finally, those cables are what keeps the mechanic and myself crazy......Maybe they did come out from a previous DELTO BOSE, BUT, what I don´t understand is that the speakers wiring harness looks exactly the same ( as I got one spare together with the radio)....SO, these cables would be either some kind of signal of the previously installation ( DELTA BOSE, but again, all of these are just ideas), or something not related to the BOSE system, although they look pretty much original installation in the car.......

[domas]

Hi again

First of all, the Gamma Bose I have is a US version, so it is slightly different, it doesn´t have the GALA and FM/AM buttons are similar but writeen differently.

US version does not matter pinout / output wise, but sorry to disappoint you but radio reception with US radio will be crap BTDT on my friends audi V8. they have slightly different frequencies and radio reception will be 0,5 mhz or something out in comparison to EU standards. US bose gammas has black-ish screen while EU has white-ish. Easy to distinguish.

Here is a picture of the actual model I have ( see picture).

This is a standard non bose radio, as bose would have a MODE button to control CD changer and bose logo on its face. I am not sure if there are exceptions. But if i understand you correctly, this is a non bose radio that previous owner has installed before you.

Other odd things is that, hter is actual power for the speakers. For what I have read, speakers would actually work as the output is amplified, as the contrary of the BOSE, which is not, and that the voltage is 12V instead of being 2v ( on Bose).
So, meaning that the speakers would get distroyed if used.....This is actually how they were before having them refurbished.

Depending on his modifications, it could be the case. But it could be as well that he uses adapter (i have shown in the picture) from normal, amplified outputs to reduce the signal to bose level.
But if the wires were cut and rerouted, be careful. I don't think it is the case because:
a) all known radios have amplified outputs on 8pin connector in the middle, while non amplified outputs go from 10 pin connector.
b) if he have directly routed the pins from 8 pin connector (amplified) to 10 pin connector, the speakers would go nuts from day one. No sound control etc. So if the system works, this should not be the case.

So, based on your diagrams, I would only need the last pins going to the speakers ( out of the last connector on the second diagram posted), but I am still puzzled about those green cables, which would seem to go in the middle connector on the middle connector of the first diagram.

I cant really follow you there - not sure which green wires you are talking about. You have not posted any pictures of your system yet.
But if they go from 8pin connector to speakers, i might have an idea - i have seen it on one audi V8, that car owner have installed standard non bose speakers in the dashboard, as BOSE audi does not have anything there. BOSE do, however have speakers in door cards. So when using this radio, where is the sound coming from? dashboard or door cards?

So, finally, those cables are what keeps the mechanic and myself crazy......Maybe they did come out from a previous DELTO BOSE, BUT, what I don´t understand is that the speakers wiring harness looks exactly the same ( as I got one spare together with the radio)....SO, these cables would be either some kind of signal of the previously installation ( DELTA BOSE, but again, all of these are just ideas), or something not related to the BOSE system, although they look pretty much original installation in the car.......

If my assumption in previous post is correct, then it means that your bose wiring should be intact. Check if you have 4 nice cables going from red 10 pin connectors without being fiddled with?
Here is the picture of the system in my car, I have 2 wires only because I have 2 active speakers only. You should have 4 there and brown GND (com) pin next to them
I am talking about the following connectors, picture attached as well.

[200t]

Hi Domas.

First of all, my bad.......

The picture I wanted to post about the model I have is in attach.

Then, in attach also, you will find the picture on the famous green wires.

The picture you posted on the pinout diagramm about the Gamma Bose is actually the one I have, so I should not be having anything on the middle connector.

On the speakers connection, you say that for my BOSE system, I should be seen the last connector the cables from/to speakers AND the Ground on "COM", right?

In fact, as you say, normal speakers were installed on the IP and little ( very light) sound was coming out of it ( they are tweeters I believe), so yes, someone must have tried to hook up those with the Gamma ( non bose).

I will ask for nice picture on the installation........I don´t have a very good phone to take pictures......

But main culprit are those 4 cables ( green), but if the radio does work ( on/off, illuminates, radio stations on IC and so on), AND all speakers are basically those 4 pins + ground on last connectors, those wires might be from a different source (!!??!)

Fact is they look like original installation on the car......

Cheers

[domas]

The picture you posted on the pinout diagramm about the Gamma Bose is actually the one I have, so I should not be having anything on the middle connector.

okay, so your bose is cd-changer friendly. it will not give any output through middle connector, as it is for cd changer

On the speakers connection, you say that for my BOSE system, I should be seen the last connector the cables from/to speakers AND the Ground on "COM", right?

That is correct. 5 cables for the bose speakers (4 signal + ground)
Other 3 are for autocheck.

In fact, as you say, normal speakers were installed on the IP and little ( very light) sound was coming out of it ( they are tweeters I believe), so yes, someone must have tried to hook up those with the Gamma ( non bose).

so if those tweeters are starting to make sound when you plug the 8pin plug in the MIDDLE connector on non bose system? So it is self explanatory. Just throw the crap out.

Fact is they look like original installation on the car......

My guess is that cables were used from another non bose car, as it is definitely OEM insulation The most important part is the 10 pin connector not to be fiddled with.

your bose car should not have middle connector at all, if it never had cd changer. does it have changer / cable?

But main culprit are those 4 cables ( green), but if the radio does work ( on/off, illuminates, radio stations on IC and so on), AND all speakers are basically those 4 pins + ground on last connectors, those wires might be from a different source (!!??!)

I don't understand you. Which speakers start to make sound when you plug the famous green wire plug in?
It is hooked to middle 8pin connector?

Really really, shitload of pictures would help. Of everything. : )

[200t]

Hey guys....I am back!!

Ok, so. Let´s take it by steps.

First of all, green cables mystery is SOLVED!!!

They are there as part of a pre-installed cable set-up coming from the Instrument Panel.
And wy it is there? Because the mechanic took off the top IP speaker grilles and saw that there was the plug for speakers ( which in any case was not used by the tweeters put in place). And this is because, when he told me that, I then realized that the instrument panel on my car comes from an Audi 100. The original one had a small crack and got this one at the yard ( in extremely awsome condition), but it did come with the pre-installed wires for the non-bose, standard, Audi 100.

And, effectivvely, the newly installed tweeters were actually hooked on the middle connector ........So, wiring from those is gone but I think I will be keeping the green cables

So there goes the green cable mystery.

Now, other things. There is some re-wiring on the top connector ( not the speakers one, but the one on top ( 8 pin). Here, for some reason ( there is a telephone installed) they cut the wires and re-wired using different colors
So, in the picture you can see the original color and the re-wiring done.
In this case, we don´t have an idea of the color and position on the connector.
From the radio functions standpoint, the radio installed ( the non bose) didd turn on, illumination was there, contant on ( ignition off) was working so they seem to have been rewired correctly, but, we are not 100% sure.

And then, the 10 pin connector seem to be unmolested, so in this case, Bose speakers wiring seem to be ok, although domas, color is different when ccompared to yours....

Also a couple of pictures of that.

Next steps are:
- Revise the 8 pin connector wiring ( colors going to their position)
- Revise the 10 pin speakers connection ( and the additional 3 I think they go to the Instrument cluster)..
- And finally, get the radio to work...For now, when turning it on, I only se "SAFE" and even by presing FM1 ans AM, nothing happens and I think that should be when the code can be entered. And the code itself, I don´t think I have the right one.....but that´s another story

[200t]

Hey.
To make it easier, This are the cable colours ( taken from the picture, not in person...yet) for the 8 PIN connector.....
I have checked those by zooming into the picture.....but, as said, I will be visiting the car probably tomorrow and re-check, but the picture is pretty good in quality

Any way, these are the colors I found:
- Grey/Blue
- White/Blue
- White
- White
- Red
- Red
- Brown

Ideas?
Thanks

One other thing......while I was checking that picture. On the right part of the picture there is a kind of connector tht has one entry white cable and one white and one red at the other end.....

YOu can see a better detail on the following picture also....

Waht´s that? I am positive it has nothing to do with the radio, but what is it anyway?

Thanks

[domas]

Re. green cables: Hey - so I was right about green cables... Really easy solution. congrats
Re. 10pin connector: well, yeah they are different. But the systems are as well, yours is bose, mine is not. as far as I can see Autocheck cables are the same though. So bose wiring intact - congrats again. You may try to compare to V8 bose system, as this maches your colors, at least for pins 7 8 9 10, which are speaker signals. pin 5 gnd is destignated as blue here, that is about the only difference. The 3 pins for autocheck matches my 200 20v non bose, so it is okay. 10pin checks out and is correct. And you can see it is not tampered with so it must be okay.
Re. 8 pin power connector, well, I may look into that later tonight, as v8 bose is not the same, but I may have something else and will post later tonight because i have some s.hit to do at the moment. Just one thing, you have 2 red wires, where one of them goes to pin 7, and another goes out of the picture. They have to be connected to the same pin IIRC. Look at my picture i have uploaded just under the shift knob.

I have attached v8 schematics that confirm the 4 wires for speakers are correct and will maybe return later to you tonight with better scheamtics

[domas]

My previous response #54 was for the first message of yours #52, as promised, you will get more info later tonight.

[domas]

Okay, found some time, here are your pins:

- Grey/Blue - Pin 6, goes to instrument lights, to turn on light in the radio accordingly
- White/Blue - Pin 1, speed sensor for GALA
- White Pin 5, switched +12V, for power antenna, amplifiers, bose amplifer relay
- White Pin 5, same as above.
- Red - Pin 7 constant +12V + return wire for motorized antenna
- Red - Pin 7, same as above, they have to be connected, the red wires
- Brown - Pin 8, constant ground

You seem to have wired the connector correctly, but 3 things:
1. Red wires have to be connected like in my picture few posts above, in the background
2. I cant distinguish between white/blue and just white in your pictures... check yourself.
3. FOR GOD SAKE PLEASE SOLDER THE WIRES AND USE SOME HEATSHRINK TUBING : )

Based in info here:

http://www.isham-research.co.uk/quattro/wiring/Audi200/

scroll down to 27 - BOSE Radio from 7/89)







Re 2 pin connector: no idea really. Cant remember such one.


Re radio lockout:
well, try keeping it on for one hour. Maybe p/o have locked it and thats why it does not allow you to enter the code.

As it is US spec radio ant buttons are different, try FM1/2 + DX, depending on the radio.
But yes the unit could be faulty. Your radio guy may try to fix it.

Another thing is, if the code has to be recovered (procedure normally includes reflashing of EEPROM), you radio guy could try flashing the EU eeprom to it - who knows - it may help to fix the FM frequency issue as well - or it may brick the radio for good. But again, the radio will be annoying due to semi functioning FM.


EDIT: found the clear picture of connector.

[200t]

Hey domas!!!!

GOt your picture!!!! Hey, this is just what I need to hook up everything.
Thanks a million.

I have exactly the same color coded cables, so I will send this right away so the mechanic can do the job of hooking up everything ( of course, with good soldering, heat shield). They usually work very good and in detail.

Will check about the Radio de coding. I might have to find another Bose........

But first, I will ask him to hook up eveyrthing and then see the radio issue.


Will keep you posted, of course

Cheers

[200t]

Hey domas.

One last thing.

You say that I have to depress FM1 + DX.......I will try that, but from what I have read, the "US" Gamma Bose is decoded by depressing FM1 + AM......

Could that be? Or am I just pressing the wrong buttons?

Thanks

[domas]

I am not sure. just random shot it was.

depends on a radio really. So try both or try keeping it on for an hour.

[200t]

One other thing.
In my post #53, what is that thing n the picture?
It is near the radio, but I believe it has nothing to do with it...but don´t know for sure.

Thanks