Lubricating a modded or track car, some advice

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  • oilman
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Jan 2006
    • 996
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Lubricating a modded or track car, some advice

    If you are "modding" your car and adding BHP or using it on track then consider your oil choice carefully as the stock manufacturers recommended oil will not give you the protection that your engine requires.

    A standard oil will not be thermally stable enough to cope with higher temperatures without "shearing" meaning that the oil will not give the same protection after a couple of thousand miles as it it when it was new.

    Let’s start with the fundamentals. An engine is a device for converting fuel into motive power. Car enthusiasts get so deep into the details they lose sight of this!

    To get more power, an engine must be modified such that it converts more fuel per minute into power than it did in standard form. To produce 6.6 million foot-pounds per minute of power (ie 200 BHP) a modern engine will burn about 0.5 litres of fuel per minute.(Equivalent to 18mpg at 120mph). So, to increase this output to 300BHP or 9.9 million foot-pounds per minute it must be modified to burn (in theory) 0.75 litres.
    However, fuel efficiency often goes out of the window when power is the only consideration, so the true fuel burn will be rather more than 0.75 litres/min.

    That’s the fundamental point, here’s the fundamental problem:

    Less than 30% of the fuel (assuming it’s petrol) is converted to all those foot-pounds. The rest is thrown away as waste heat. True, most of it goes down the exhaust, but over 10% has to be eliminated from the engine internals, and the first line of defence is the oil.

    More power means a bigger heat elimination problem. Every component runs hotter; For instance, piston crowns and rings will be running at 280-300C instead of a more normal 240-260C, so it is essential that the oil films on cylinder walls provide an efficient heat path to the block casting, and finally to the coolant.

    Any breakdown or carbonisation of the oil will restrict the heat transfer area, leading to serious overheating.

    A modern synthetic lubricant based on true temperature-resistant synthetics is essential for long-term reliability. At 250C+, a mineral or hydrocracked mineral oil, particularly a 5W/X or 10W/X grade, is surprisingly volatile, and an oil film around this temperature will be severely depleted by evaporation loss.

    Back in the 1970s the solution was to use a thick oil, typically 20W/50; in the late 1980s even 10W/60 grades were used. But in modern very high RPM engines with efficient high-delivery oil pumps thick oils waste power, and impede heat transfer in some situations.

    A light viscosity good synthetic formulated for severe competition use is the logical and intelligent choice for the 21st century.

    Cheers
    Simon
    Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
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  • Fat Audi 80
    Super Moderator
    • Jan 2004
    • 10547
    • Country: England

    #2
    Great post. Yes we do "forget" that power = heat!

    Cheers,

    Steve
    The Perfectionist
    sigpic
    Audi Class Concours winner Stoner Park 2014, ADI Concours D'Elegance Class Winner 2008, Runner up 2014. Winner, S2Forum Show'n'Shine Billing 2006 & 2008.

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    • oilman
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Jan 2006
      • 996
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      Heat and fuel dilution are the two biggest killers of oil.

      Cheers
      Simon
      Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
      oilman's website for BMW engine oil and much more - register for news and offers
      email: sales@opieoils.co.uk
      phone: 01209 202944

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      • kwlw
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Sep 2004
        • 1025
        • Country: Lithuania

        #4
        Originally posted by oilman
        Back in the 1970s the solution was to use a thick oil, typically 20W/50; in the late 1980s even 10W/60 grades were used. But in modern very high RPM engines with efficient high-delivery oil pumps thick oils waste power, and impede heat transfer in some situations.
        A light viscosity good synthetic formulated for severe competition use is the logical and intelligent choice for the 21st century.
        I agree with everything, what was said, however our 20v turbo engines were designed in early 80's (I mean somewhere in the 1983 right?), so the best solution so far is to use 10w/60 for 5 pots. And everything you've written about 21st century applies to modern 1.8T and 2.0T right ?

        Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm a bit confused with these dates

        Sau
        200 20vt 88' 3b, human carrier
        CQ typ85 with AAN inside, see project blog at http://kwlw.blogspot.com

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        • oilman
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Jan 2006
          • 996
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #5
          Even an engine designed in the eighties is considered a modern engine.

          Classic cars dont use anything thicker than an SAE50 multigrade, since the age of these cars engine tolerances have got closer, not further apart.... just with this in mind why the use of an SAE60 which is quite a bit thicker then an SAE50?
          Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
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          • james_bufkin
            S2Forum Fanatic
            • Feb 2004
            • 59

            #6
            I wouldn't be so quick to throw in thin oil.

            If you dry sump your engine and have a giant oil cooler under your rear wing you can still run old dino oil and get away with things. Newer synthetic oils are alot cleaner and work better than old dino oil. Oil weight has more to do with providing proper lubrication and well as function for hydraulic lifters and turbo bearing oiling than just making power.

            Most people I know among a who's who of I5 engine still use 20W-50 synthetic. 50 being the important number for wear protection and the operating tempeature of the engine.

            I also use this in my engine because its Hot in Texas and when I'm in my car I'm pounding on it mercilessly. Thicker oil designed for the squirters etc will help prevent blowby at operating temps.

            Modern trend is to use thinner oil to improve mileage and/or horsepower at the expense of engine life. Definately possible if people drive like grandma.

            Comment

            • oilman
              S2Forum Maniac
              • Jan 2006
              • 996
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              This doesn't quite make sense to me.

              With a thick oil, the last thing you want to do is overcool it, making it in effect thick which merely risks cavitation, foaming and air entrainment.

              Cheers
              Simon
              Use the code S2F and get 10% Club Discount
              oilman's website for BMW engine oil and much more - register for news and offers
              email: sales@opieoils.co.uk
              phone: 01209 202944

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              • james_bufkin
                S2Forum Fanatic
                • Feb 2004
                • 59

                #8
                Yeah thats my point.
                The Giant rear wing oil coolers are way oversized for modern oil. So yes, its very possible with modern oils that with a dry sumped race engine the oil might not get to temperature. Not really the point, but its a known issue with A2 owners. The issue is that thinner oil does give power and mileage but is known to provide less protection to engine parts. The key is to use as thin an oil that suits the engines use and your particular driving style. Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

                Just like a turbo, there are always tradeoffs with oil. More protection and better high temperature operation on one hand with a thicker oil versus more power and mileage but less protection with a thinner oil.

                The sheer amount of heat produced by the I5 engine at high-duty cycles is what I'm specifically addressing. If anyone is old enough to remember when 10W-30 became popular back in the early 80s to improve mileage. Most old car guys insisted on keeping their 40W and 50W oils for their engines. To this day. Most German car makers recommend 40w and 50W oils for their engines while American and Japanese car makers recommend 30W oils. Remember the old M3 bearing debocle. 0W-40 ws the oil they recommended. Serious cold weather protection, but 40 when hot.

                Chose an oil that matches your car's use. I personally wouldn't recommend anything but a 50 weight in the I5. Especially if you drive it hard. 5W-50 up north, 20W-50 in the south.

                Edit, Totally with you in regards to cooling. It doesn't take much to overload a stock Audi cooling system on the track. Most people run short 20 min sessions so their oil and water has a chance to recover. Even more so the reason to be cautious about oil weight when running track sessions.

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                • 1975DCS
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 258
                  • Country: Netherlands

                  #9
                  Originally posted by james_bufkin
                  Edit, Totally with you in regards to cooling. It doesn't take much to overload a stock Audi cooling system on the track. Most people run short 20 min sessions so their oil and water has a chance to recover. Even more so the reason to be cautious about oil weight when running track sessions.
                  Regardles on what oil people are using, if temperatures get out of hand: sort that first! It is the basic of curing the problem were they are...

                  I am sure that a well thought competition car is running on perfect oil and water temperatures...

                  Take a look at this watercooling:

                  It is big and it is there for a reason...
                  Attached Files

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