Unichip injector problem

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  • NigelO
    S2Forum Tinkerer
    • Sep 2006
    • 4
    • Home: United Kingdom

    #1

    Unichip injector problem

    Hi all - sorry to resurrect an ancient thread, but I tripped over it when doing a Google search for "injector pulse duration" - From reading though this thread, I reckon you may be able to help.....

    I run a Fiat Coupe 20v turbo. Not a million miles removed from the Audi 5-pots I guess - certainly sound very similar and a few of us on the Coupe forum (www.fccuk.org/forum) are getting very decent bhp (500+)

    I've recently had a pretty big rebuild after wearing my oil control rings - I took the opportunity to have forged pistons, flowed head etc. With a fairly hefty turbo (GT2871R) I'm now pulling 395bhp and 330 lb-ft of torque. However, to get this, I junked the 330cc injectors and fitted 384cc jobbies from the 16v turbo Coupe (same as the Integrale)

    The car now runs great at the top end, as the headline power would suggest, but the low-end running is awful. An ECU reset cures it for a day, but then the ECU "learns" the overfuelling and cuts it back, resulting in it going lean.

    Thats problem 1

    Problem 2 is that the car is very on/off at VERY light throttle openings - its either accelerating or decelerating - won't hold steady. The throttle position sensor is reading fine (I have a Sykes-Pickavant code reader, so I can check) The TPS voltage is fine. The MAF voltage is fine, but the lambda voltage is dropping as far as 0.03v - I assume due to the fuel being cut completely when the ECU senses there's too much being injected.

    My theory is that one or more of the following is happening

    1) The minimum pulse duration of the standard injectors is the same as the new (larger) ones, meaning that when the ECU says "give me the minimum", it gets 20% more than it expected, causing overfuelling, which gives a little acceleration, then it cuts it straight back again.

    2) I read earlier in this thread about TPS / MAF plausibility checks - is it possible that something is incorrect there - not sure it can be though, as the engine is still 2 litres, so its not using any more air when off boost (its using LOTS more on-boost - I run 1.6 bar )

    I also run a Unichip over the stock ECU with a modded chip (raised fuelling, no fuel cut at 1.5 bar and 200rpm extra on the rev limiter). The Unichip is mapped against a base map in the ECU, and other than this horrible on/off lark, when the ECU has been freshly reset, it goes like stink and has decent throttle response, etc. However, the ECU learns quickly - 50 miles later and I've got fluffy throttle, pinking and general misbehaving.

    Anyway, I'm rambling - my question. Does anyone amongst the obvious experts on here know if injectors have minimum pulse durations, and if so, how the hell do I overcome the overfuelling problem caused by bigger injectors firing for the minimum period

    thanks in advance

    Nigel
  • Billman
    S2Forum Freak
    • Nov 2004
    • 4129

    #2
    I am not the Expert in this Forum but i think with a Proper Remap you will have very good results. What ECU do you have? Magneti - Marelli, Bosch?
    Go Holset or Go RS4

    Comment

    • Jamo
      Retired OG Mod
      • Mar 2004
      • 21750
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      Originally posted by NigelO
      Hi all - sorry to resurrect an ancient thread, but I tripped over it when doing a Google search for "injector pulse duration" - From reading though this thread, I reckon you may be able to help.....

      I run a Fiat Coupe 20v turbo. Not a million miles removed from the Audi 5-pots I guess - certainly sound very similar and a few of us on the Coupe forum (www.fccuk.org/forum) are getting very decent bhp (500+)

      I've recently had a pretty big rebuild after wearing my oil control rings - I took the opportunity to have forged pistons, flowed head etc. With a fairly hefty turbo (GT2871R) I'm now pulling 395bhp and 330 lb-ft of torque. However, to get this, I junked the 330cc injectors and fitted 384cc jobbies from the 16v turbo Coupe (same as the Integrale)

      The car now runs great at the top end, as the headline power would suggest, but the low-end running is awful. An ECU reset cures it for a day, but then the ECU "learns" the overfuelling and cuts it back, resulting in it going lean.

      Thats problem 1

      Problem 2 is that the car is very on/off at VERY light throttle openings - its either accelerating or decelerating - won't hold steady. The throttle position sensor is reading fine (I have a Sykes-Pickavant code reader, so I can check) The TPS voltage is fine. The MAF voltage is fine, but the lambda voltage is dropping as far as 0.03v - I assume due to the fuel being cut completely when the ECU senses there's too much being injected.

      My theory is that one or more of the following is happening

      1) The minimum pulse duration of the standard injectors is the same as the new (larger) ones, meaning that when the ECU says "give me the minimum", it gets 20% more than it expected, causing overfuelling, which gives a little acceleration, then it cuts it straight back again.

      2) I read earlier in this thread about TPS / MAF plausibility checks - is it possible that something is incorrect there - not sure it can be though, as the engine is still 2 litres, so its not using any more air when off boost (its using LOTS more on-boost - I run 1.6 bar )

      I also run a Unichip over the stock ECU with a modded chip (raised fuelling, no fuel cut at 1.5 bar and 200rpm extra on the rev limiter). The Unichip is mapped against a base map in the ECU, and other than this horrible on/off lark, when the ECU has been freshly reset, it goes like stink and has decent throttle response, etc. However, the ECU learns quickly - 50 miles later and I've got fluffy throttle, pinking and general misbehaving.

      Anyway, I'm rambling - my question. Does anyone amongst the obvious experts on here know if injectors have minimum pulse durations, and if so, how the hell do I overcome the overfuelling problem caused by bigger injectors firing for the minimum period

      thanks in advance

      Nigel
      The problem is the unichip, it should remodulate the OEM ecu output to the injectors.

      So no matter what the OEM does the unichip should modulate the output to it's map.

      Sounds like a bad mapping job to me.

      Comment

      • NigelO
        S2Forum Tinkerer
        • Sep 2006
        • 4
        • Home: United Kingdom

        #4
        Sounds like a bad mapping job to me.
        Inclined to agree - I've just spoken with another (highly recommended) Unichip mapper and he reckons he knows exactly what the issue is. I've been told that my Unichip can control injectors to some degree, so maybe this will be the final fix - I hope so, I wasn't budgeting on a grand's worth of RR time on top of my £3k engine bill (Glad the missus doesn't frequest these forums )

        Booked in on Saturday am for another £200+ worth of RR time

        In answer to the earlier question - the ECU is a Motronic 2.10 (apprently the same as the Porker 993 RSR, which I've been told doesn't use MAF or MAP sensors - HOW?! - my brain hurts).

        Comment

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