3b to aby ignition?

[Welleh]

hi, know this thread has probably been posted umpteen times before but i searched and i couldnt find!

basically, went to the ring last august and had a blast up untill the point when some golf driver from reading drove in to me! (let me know if u want pics!)
spent 2 days getting car back to uk! what a gag considering there almost 2 ton! lol.
now its here sitting there and the sea water is slowly eating at the galv'd body panels
im saving to do some nutty stuff to it! but dont worry, i'll be doing all the fundamentals first + more!

its a massive list and i wont put it up unless people want me too, but as far as i can see in order to go for big HP like 450+ it looks like i really need to get completely electronic ig timing sorted atleast (e.g aby style) then map sensorst etc... theres 2 ways i can see about doing this;
1; sort out a stand alone ecu and go my own way of doing it, will cost more but probably more tuneable; muchos workos to sort out tho!
2; get the harness and ecu from an aby, how hard is it to source and do? and also how tuneable is it?

any views and info would be much appreciated!
ta
Stevo

[Jamo]

Audiman ran up to 500bhp on a 3B ignition, dont believe the hype.

Search for his posts and threads. Admitedly he swapped to ABY in the end but he was running sub 4 secs in his S2 on a 3B ignition.

[terrybullwon]

1; sort out a stand alone ecu and go my own way of doing it, will cost more but probably more tuneable; muchos workos to sort out tho!
2; get the harness and ecu from an aby, how hard is it to source and do? and also how tuneable is it?

any views and info would be much appreciated!
ta
Stevo

Theres lots of very detailed threads on here, may the search button be your friend

Nice to see a S2 not to far away from my self, Ross a member on here made really good power 400+ with the OEM ecu and 3B ignition

If you went to a after market ecu you would be in for alot of work, and also a few custom parts nodoubt.

Your best bet would be to put the coffee on and read "Project 400"

It depends what power you want to make?

Also Tom or Dougs cars make extreme power and Toms is on the bay at the moment

What turbo do you plan to use?

James

[Ross]

How much power? Tom pushed the 3B ignition to 480bhp and then changed to the ABY, god knows how much more it could have taken. There are advantages of going with the ABY though. Search "ABY ignition" or "ABY loom" and I'm sure you'll find some info. Was a PITA job if i remember! Personally I had a GT3071 running @ 2.0bar on a 3B with no problems.

I suspect you'll be making some massive upgrades to the engine internals, so you could consider an ABY head or having the 3B head machined to accept a hall sensor and do away with the dizzy whilst your at it, and going with electronic ignition. Do some searching and reading, find out what the 'big power boys' have been up to

Cheers
Ross

[Welleh]

i'd be happy with anything over 450 but obv ill be going for more all the time and im not afraid of having to do the work to do it either!, (full time electrical engineer part time wacky mechanic) ill defo be doing internals etc all the fundamentals, turbowise ive been eyeing up that k26/gt30r on 034motorsport, looks pretty sweet!
so far the car as it is...
91 3b coupe, piggyback ecu(not too sure on what it is bought it off will), replaced all gaskets on engine etc and alot of pipes with samco/standard items, modified intercooler in some way, bought an aby estate intercooler core was 1.5" bigger so i chopped one of the end caps off and welded my 3b endcap on, scrapped the air-con, loads of new sensors, porsche 996 calipers and 330mm disks, kw variant1 coilovers, and made my own 2.5" stainless side exit that has one tiny 280mm silencer in (downpipe back).

to be fair i want to make the car easier for future modifieng also, so thats why i thought it may be wise to go with the aby ignition setup or a standalone while im doing the whole lot, you say the aby has the hall effect sensor in the head? where abouts is it and has anyone else machined one into a 3b head? i saw that 034 do a dizzy block off kit, made me think wether they do anything for it or not?, anyone know if anyone else has done this conversion keeping the 3b head? if not how hard is it to get a aby head?

one last one...
on 034motorsport they do a replica rs2 manifold.., anyone know what kinda HP thats good for? surely it'll be good for like 500+? or is it worth me going to the original plan and getting a tubular one?

@ross
where bouts in hampshire are you? pm me!
@terry
u on the isle of wight?

cheers
Stevo

[terrybullwon]

Yeah i am on the Island steve, Best bet on the manifold would be to contact Javad @ 034 hes very helpfull and replys quickly or corey on here also deals with them.

cheers James

[Corey]

i saw that 034 do a dizzy block off kit, made me think wether they do anything for it or not?, anyone know if anyone else has done this conversion keeping the 3b head? if not how hard is it to get a aby head?

The blanking plate is for the V8 engine when going standalone, if you want COP on the 3B the only choices are either a complete standalone system (034 stgIIc etc) or to convert to the ABY ignition system.

one last one...
on 034motorsport they do a replica rs2 manifold.., anyone know what kinda HP thats good for? surely it'll be good for like 500+? or is it worth me going to the original plan and getting a tubular one?

Depends if you want to retain that "stock" look or not, both are good products and very capable of high bhp

[1975DCS]

I am not sure but I think the Dahlback Golf is using a single coil. And also the well known VS Motor uses single coil (they think that is better than the 5 coil package) and they use some sort of amplifier and other modifications...

Most big boys tend to go for different electronics as they see advantages (in mapping and MAF etc).

[Welleh]

so really single coil system isnt as bad as i thought?, thought some mappers came across problems when the car has a dizzy?! or have i just heard a load of ******** because the bloke diddnt want to do the job!?
surely a 5 coil system would be alot better long term tho? less mech parts to go wrong etc! oh forgot to say if i go standalone i was maybe thinking of mega squirting it, ive got all the bits other than the ic lying around for it at work, would be quite a wacky experiment(was originally gunna be used for a turbo'd 4 stroke go-kart me and friends were going to do! ) it doesnt look majorly hard to do although i will still have to look into some other stand alones aswell for reliability and ease of job e.t.c

corey, not really botherd about look to be fair, aslong as it can give big power i'm not fussed! you a uk based dealer for 034? maybe getting hold of you later this month if thats the case!

[Jamo]

The dizzy system is far better than megapants!!!

Yes the coil system is better but for up to 450 bhp is it worth it?

[Corey]

so really single coil system isnt as bad as i thought?, thought some mappers came across problems when the car has a dizzy?! or have i just heard a load of ******** because the bloke diddnt want to do the job!?
surely a 5 coil system would be alot better long term tho? less mech parts to go wrong etc! oh forgot to say if i go standalone i was maybe thinking of mega squirting it, ive got all the bits other than the ic lying around for it at work, would be quite a wacky experiment(was originally gunna be used for a turbo'd 4 stroke go-kart me and friends were going to do! ) it doesnt look majorly hard to do although i will still have to look into some other stand alones aswell for reliability and ease of job e.t.c

corey, not really botherd about look to be fair, aslong as it can give big power i'm not fussed! you a uk based dealer for 034? maybe getting hold of you later this month if thats the case!

The only issue with the single coil is if you have to access it, it's take the inlet off time.
Yes we are UK based and a dealer for 034Motorsport. We will help where ever we can

[Welleh]

excellent! pm'd!

@jamo - i will eventually be going over 450, thats just a starting mark and why u call it megapants? looks quite good imo think it could be one of those 'have to try' things tho!

[PeterS]

I thought that I would add this to the discussion

...Ned Ritchie owner of "Intended Acceleration" a reputable chip tuner in the USA, responded to an email thread on the 200q20v (3b) email list on the audifans.com discussing the risk of running the wrong distributor rotor on the 3b engine...(the 10v wide rotor vs narrow 3b): "...Yes, the wrong rotor WILL destroy connecting rods and pistons and perhaps the block.

This only occurs under boost high enough & with other issues to cause detonation which retards the timing to its maximum retard. While it is being retarded the rotor is still turning approaching and possibly going past the correct post in the distributor cap. Here is where the fun begins.

The spark will then jump to the next "up coming cylinder " because the resistance to that cylinder is less even if the distance the spark has to travel is greater. (The high charge pressure in the correct cylinder causes the higher resistance and drives up the voltage until. . .) The spark bypasses the correct cylinder and goes to the next one. Bent rod, and other terrible things.

I cannot give away our proprietary rotor specifications but we actually solved Audi's problem and was able to run extremely high boost. Maybe only a hint: (1965 Rover 2000TC engine)..." end quote from Ned...



Ok, what's so special about a 1965 Rover?

-Peter