3B Timing Chain question

[Alex20v]

The easiest way is by using the Febi 25400 split link and length chain.

Hi Crasher,

With your solution using the split chain, can I rotate the camshafts without lifting them? I’m currently not sure if there’s enough clearance between the camshafts and the cylinder head.

And can I simply pull out the old chain and add the new one without the camshafts rotating, or is there not enough clearance for that?

[Crasher]

As far as I'm aware one has to lift the cams out to remove the chain, there is no split link.

Edit... Just read back through the thread, there obviously is a split link on replacement Febi chains, I've not seen one on any of the OE chains I've handled.

They offer both.

[Tractor Dave]

You could cut out a link with a grinder using a thin disc but you would have to protect everything with clean rags to stop any metal participants getting into the engine. I would set to TDC before you start and remove the spark plugs to prevent pistons creeping with compression.

[K Simmonds]

As far as I'm aware one has to lift the cams out to remove the chain, there is no split link.

Edit... Just read back through the thread, there obviously is a split link on replacement Febi chains, I've not seen one on any of the OE chains I've handled.

[pscouto]

Yes, that is what I am doing in the picture. This chain saves the stress of the cams in/out and worrying about breaking a cap. On this job, I was using POGO vernier sprockets and belt pulley so I could set the cams dead on spec, the OE set up would have been 1.35 degrees retarded.

Just a quick amateur question, how do you remove the old chain without removing the cams?

[Tractor Dave]

I had a good look at the Febi chain. They are manufactured by JWIS in Germany. Not sure if they are OE suppliers? Febi seem to be more of a box manufacturer these days.



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[Tractor Dave]

I have fitted a few of the febi chains no issue. Compared to the original audi chain, they look identical.

[John.]

I have been professionally using FEBI for 40 years and the problems I get minimal....

That's good to hear your experience of them is good. I use their stuff now and again and never had any problems.

[Crasher]

Yes it is running. I have been professionally using FEBI for 40 years and the problems I get minimal, their KR 16v timing chain (which is the same) I have use since the late 80's when we started doing Golf 2 16v head porting. Their lifters are INA and better than VW, they never rattle, this particular cam chain, which I used to use in the old continuous link way, is vastly superior to the VW part, never exhibiting the looseness a VW one will from low milage. FEBI products are nigh on the best I know, the only company who sometimes does it better is Meyle but their UK importer is not very proactive.

[Alex20v]

Yes, that is what I am doing in the picture. This chain saves the stress of the cams in/out and worrying about breaking a cap. On this job, I was using POGO vernier sprockets and belt pulley so I could set the cams dead on spec, the OE set up would have been 1.35 degrees retarded.

Nice to know, did you already run the engine with this chain?
Febi unfortunately often has inferior quality....i don't trust the whole thing

[Tractor Dave]

Nice. Thanks.

[Crasher]

Yes, that is what I am doing in the picture. This chain saves the stress of the cams in/out and worrying about breaking a cap. On this job, I was using POGO vernier sprockets and belt pulley so I could set the cams dead on spec, the OE set up would have been 1.35 degrees retarded.

[Tractor Dave]

That's very interesting Crasher. I have never used that chain before. Would it be possible to use that chain without removing the cams? Is there enough room to slide it under the sprockets?

[Crasher]

The easiest way is by using the Febi 25400 split link and length chain.

[GurjinderSembhi]

Decided to revive this thread - although I sorted out the problem back in the day it always annoyed me that there wasn't a clear view on how to setup the timing chain - so here is some points for anyone who needs them in the future.

I'm sure this is super easy for a lot of old timers but it gave me a headache and a half (especially when I had to redo it on my RS2) and the guidance of "just make sure the 0's point towards each other" is not easy to attain!

On my 3B there was no way of counting beforehand as the chain had slacked and jumped a tooth (luckily no damage was caused) so had to verify against another car as the online information was not clear

Procedure:

1. Obviously ensure that your engine is set to TDC before anything is taken off....
2. Once the cams are off, the easiest way to place them is to put them on a table to hold them steady and then put on the chain on the cam wheels with the two zero's lining up against each other.
3. As in both pictures there should be an equal amount of teeth (7) that goes from the 0 mark to 90 degree upwards (first tooth engaging the chain), on both sides.
   1. There is a 0 mark on both the inside and outside of both cams, using either side is fine
4. Between both cam wheels (first tooth engaged on chain) you should be able to count 9 chain pins as per the pictures.
   1. Some forum posts mentions 10/11/12 chain link gaps (the gaps on the top of the chain) - the correct number is 10 for stock RR/3B/ABY/ADU cam setup (verified on all 4)
   2. I suspect also for AAN (i have not personally verified)
5. Once chain sits correctly, pick them up while pushing the cams apart and put tension on the chain, so that when you put it down the links stay
   1. when the chain sits correctly it is TIGHT - there is 0 slack and there shouldn't be any - if there is, change the chain.
6. Verify the correct amount of chain pins (9) line up between the cams and the correct amount of teeth (7) from the 0 marks to the first tooth that engages the chain
7. If the correct amount of pins and teeth are used, then the 0 marks should point to each other and be horizontal to the head.
8. Tighten down the caps and ensure that the correct amount of chain pins and teeth are still set (and that the 0's are still pointing towards each other).
   1. If the chain is seated with the proper amount of pins and teeth but 0's out of sync, I recommend that you re-seat the caps again until they do.
   2. Just follow the instructions from the audi manual and do quarter turns until they sit - slow and steady will also avoid bending your cams

Note for RS2 - the chain pins and teeth amount are the same! The 1/2 tooth out position against the cam cover is due to the camshaft shutter wheel (this also drove me nuts)

Again - this is for STOCK cam setup and verified on 4 unmodified cars.

1st picture is my own and second picture of 12v or Quattro forum (I think).

Hopefully this is helpful to someone in the future.

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