Cylinder Head upgrade

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  • piotr
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Jul 2012
    • 1470
    • Home: Poland Current: England

    #1

    Cylinder Head upgrade

    Hi guys .
    what are the opinions on the “must “ when bringing the power up to the level around 500BHP in terms of cylinder head upgrades .
    My friend who is a engine builder said the springs would be absolute minimum.Also he said it would be nice to go for one piece valves and port match .

    im not too keen on taking the head off as the engine was fully rebuild in 2016 and only did about 5k miles but then again if it really needs doing then it needs doing and that’s it .
    it would be nice to hear from people who actually are running cars with similar power level and what they did to the heads?
  • SteveH
    Super Moderator
    • Jul 2003
    • 4460
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    You'll get that out of a standard head with standard valves and springs. Easy to lightly port and match the ports to the gaskets. If you go down the route of new valves, springs, retainers, etc it will get expensive quickly. Additional cooling channel behind the fire rings would be worthwhile to help manage temps.
    91 Modded 3B
    14 A6 Avant Black Edition

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    • piotr
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Jul 2012
      • 1470
      • Home: Poland Current: England

      #3
      Originally posted by SteveH
      You'll get that out of a standard head with standard valves and springs. Easy to lightly port and match the ports to the gaskets. If you go down the route of new valves, springs, retainers, etc it will get expensive quickly. Additional cooling channel behind the fire rings would be worthwhile to help manage temps.
      Cheers Steve.
      For me the main thing is reliability.
      Kind of stupid to get lots of power if it will **** itself after 5 minutes.
      What I’m worry about is that I will be asking 25 years old valves and springs to cope with more than twice as much power ,more heat and pressure.

      Comment

      • steve briance
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Aug 2014
        • 1455
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        I can't offer any informed advice i'm afraid but am curious... What does your engine builder mean by one piece valves? Does he mean solid valve lifters?

        Solid valve lifters seem to become desirable for higher rpm above 8000. If thats your expectation then, he could be right and that for me is also a reliability thing - no more ticking hydraulic lifters and no bouncing valves upsetting things at high rpms.
        Last edited by steve briance; 25 December 2021, 19:25.

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        • piotr
          S2Forum Extremist
          • Jul 2012
          • 1470
          • Home: Poland Current: England

          #5
          Originally posted by steve briance
          I can't offer any informed advice i'm afraid but am curious... What does your engine builder mean by one piece valves? Does he mean solid valve lifters?

          Solid valve lifters seem to become desirable for higher rpm above 8000. If thats your expectation then, he could be right and that for me is also a reliability thing - no more ticking hydraulic lifters and no bouncing valves upsetting things are high rpms.
          To be absolutely honest I’m not to sure what he did mean by that as we only had quick chat and I was working so didn’t go into the details.I have just assumed it’s different type of valves but I need to ask him questions .

          Comment

          • spink
            S2Forum Freak
            • Jul 2003
            • 4382
            • Country: England

            #6
            I guess by one piece he means non sodium filled valves?

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            • piotr
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Jul 2012
              • 1470
              • Home: Poland Current: England

              #7
              Originally posted by spink
              I guess by one piece he means non sodium filled valves?
              That’s what I think and I can see reading about it .
              nothing to do with solid lifters .
              I will have a chat with him after Christmas but I can see it coming,I will be taking head off as I don’t want to risk valve dropping

              Comment

              • mac2226
                S2Forum Extremist
                • Jun 2008
                • 1289
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                Originally posted by piotr
                Hi guys .
                what are the opinions on the “must “ when bringing the power up to the level around 500BHP in terms of cylinder head upgrades .
                My friend who is a engine builder said the springs would be absolute minimum.Also he said it would be nice to go for one piece valves and port match .

                im not too keen on taking the head off as the engine was fully rebuild in 2016 and only did about 5k miles but then again if it really needs doing then it needs doing and that’s it .
                it would be nice to hear from people who actually are running cars with similar power level and what they did to the heads?
                If your going to remove the head then just change full head setup with supertec valves ti retainers double valve springs and port matching the intake and exaust if they’ve not been changed already the valve guides.

                Comment

                • Cordoba16vt
                  S2Forum Enthusiast
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 182
                  • Country: Bulgaria

                  #9
                  I am in the 400+ BHP range with totally standard head, serviced, with one piece valves ( the original valves were not serviceable - they had sunk into the guides way too much and got thin at the skirts - 440 000km had taken its toll) having absolutely no issues to take the engine to 7000 plus rpm at 1.8 bar on billet RS2 and high lift cams. One thing I will do with next belt change is put the lightweight lifters from INA. Whatever the setup, if engine is taken regularly above 7000 rpm , especially for long periods, will cause reliability issues.

                  Comment

                  • s2dk
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Jul 2016
                    • 507
                    • Country: Denmark

                    #10
                    I ran 565 hp on stock head and stock cams (aby)
                    only had arp head bolts and rs 2 head gasket
                    gtx35 gen 2 at 2.3 bar from 2018-2021
                    now I’m on regrind 7a cams same setup as above but only 2.15 bar and 642 hp

                    Comment

                    • nip
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 1786
                      • Home: United Kingdom Current: Abu Dhabi

                      #11
                      Originally posted by s2dk
                      I ran 565 hp on stock head and stock cams (aby)
                      only had arp head bolts and rs 2 head gasket
                      gtx35 gen 2 at 2.3 bar from 2018-2021
                      now I’m on regrind 7a cams same setup as above but only 2.15 bar and 642 hp
                      Hi there when did you get full boost before and after cheers

                      Comment

                      • s2dk
                        S2Forum Maniac
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 507
                        • Country: Denmark

                        #12
                        Hi
                        I sadly don’t have a boost curve on the old setup
                        but I have a graph that shows both 565 and 642 and they are the same until 5500 ish

                        Attached Files

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                        • nip
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 1786
                          • Home: United Kingdom Current: Abu Dhabi

                          #13
                          Originally posted by s2dk
                          Hi
                          I sadly don’t have a boost curve on the old setup
                          but I have a graph that shows both 565 and 642 and they are the same until 5500 ish
                          Thanks that will do cheers, bet it comes it alot harder now

                          Comment

                          • piotr
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Jul 2012
                            • 1470
                            • Home: Poland Current: England

                            #14
                            Originally posted by s2dk
                            I ran 565 hp on stock head and stock cams (aby)
                            only had arp head bolts and rs 2 head gasket
                            gtx35 gen 2 at 2.3 bar from 2018-2021
                            now I’m on regrind 7a cams same setup as above but only 2.15 bar and 642 hp
                            Many thanks for reply

                            Comment

                            • s2dk
                              S2Forum Maniac
                              • Jul 2016
                              • 507
                              • Country: Denmark

                              #15
                              Originally posted by nip

                              Thanks that will do cheers, bet it comes it alot harder now
                              Yah its Way different op top Thats for sure

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