Turbo setup on a 2.2 with stock cams (KKK/GT2871 or similar)

[larsaskogstad]

Hi

Will be doing a rebuild on my 3b engine with the standard uprated rods etc.

Considering to changing out the turbo with still keeping the original look;

Been reading several posts regarding the K26/GT2871 which seems like the solution I might be using.

How is it with surging on a rather stock setup with stock cams on the 3b engines (2.2) ?

Will it be too hot over a long period of time?

What can I expect form a KKK/GT2871 compared to a RS2 hybrid or the turbo im currently using (k24 7000 hybrid).

Where can I expect spool up + max boost ?

Or would a KKK/GT3071 be a better solution?


The ideal goal for me would be a fast spooling 420-440hp crank setup for driveability.


Currently got a Wagner em (kkk flange), currently stock IC which will be changed, injectors will be changed, running custom ecu,
already got a 3" exhaust and downpipe will be made. Feel like this would be a nice solution, if there will be any problems at "MOT/TüV" it would be easy
to swap out the turbo for the original unit..



- Lars

[struikie]

What about the EFR range from BorgWarner?
They seem to spool like crazy. (I have a 7163 on the shelf)
This will be my first petrol turbo car/ project so no experience with setups...

JW

[larsaskogstad]

Would like that but I need something with k24/26 turboflange and it looks too new/racing ish for what Im looking for.
It would be the first choice if it wasnt an issue.

[Tractor Dave]

Have a chat with Vidar, Norwegian Audi Parts. I'm running one of his on my Nothelle and very pleased.

[larsaskogstad]

does he sell kkk/gt2871 setups?

[Tractor Dave]

Not sure. He is active on Facebook. Norwegian Audi Parts

[K Simmonds]

Vidar does offer some nice turbo's and he also builds units to order so definitely worth a try... have you considered a good old K26/7 hybrid? They look pretty stock and will produce the sort of power your after, especially with a modern comp wheel.

[larsaskogstad]

I feel like the good old K24/7 hybrid still spools a bit late but Im not quite sure.
That will for sure give the stock setup look but the KKK turbos are a bit outdated compared to newer turbo right? or am I totally wrong here?

[adam g]

I think the gt2871 will struggle to hit your target hp.

I'm making just over 400 using a gt3071 with a similar set up to the one you are going for.

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk

[K Simmonds]

I think the gt2871 will struggle to hit your target hp.

I'm making just over 400 using a gt3071 with a similar set up to the one you are going for.

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk

That's interesting, do you know how much torque your set up is producing and how quickly does it spool up? There was a hybrid turbo that was very popular among those wanting that bit more than RS2+ power ten years ago but I can't for the life of me remember what is was called.... I might be completely wrong but I think you ran one for a while Adam?

There's a lot to said for an upgraded RS2 turbo, okay it won't quite make the outright power your looking for but it certainly won't be shy of torque... And you could go for various RS2+ software chip sets as opposed to having to get a custom map. Though as your running a custom ECU I guess this is irrelevant.

I ran a straight RS2 K24 7200 on my 3B which was converted to as close RS2 spec as is practical, that had a nicely ported head/inlet manifold and all the other bit's required to run that turbo, RS2 EM/IC and injectors, 7A FPR, 3" exhaust etc...

I was very kindly given a chip set done by 'Hoffer' when I purchased a spare ECU, this was pretty aggressive but still fairly smooth and with a much wider spread of torque than a stock RS2. Indeed it was better than than the the TS chip set I was previously running.

I had over 1 bar of boost at 2K RPM and 2 bar by 3k RPM, tapering down from around 4K RPM onwards. I don't know what the outright power was, though I'd make an educated guess at around 380 but that wasn't what I liked about the set up. I found it to be really driver friendly and given how much boost it was running very smooth, I know the new owner is also very happy with it. My RS2 with a K26/7 actually drives very like my old 3B when it comes to power delivery, though it's more refined feeling, especially at the bottom end, MTM did a good job.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking Garret turbos, they're excellent products and are more advanced with superior spool up characteristics than an old journal bearing turbo, that said old KKK turbos are tough as old boots and can look very close to stock.

OP... I'd contact Vidar and see what he recommends for your needs. Be it a Garret/KKK hybrid, a straight KKK or perhaps something else entirely. Also are you mapping your car yourself? That opens up even more choice.

[larsaskogstad]

A KKK would make things a bit easier since I already have KKK flange on a Wagner exh manifold (which makes it looks stock).
a larger KKK would'nt be so visually changing so maybe I'll go for a KKK.
Vidar told me earlier he could deliever with different exhaust sizings 8,10 etc. But im not sure how it would relate to spool up.
Ive got a 270 or 280 chip no-name with a 3 bar vmap sensor and it feels very driveable and fine, pulls fine until 6000 where it feels like its dropping a lot.

Just from friends and other with several s-cars I've been told that 440-450 is a good limit on the engines without sacrificing too much reliability and driveability.
I've yet to been in a RS2 actually with typical 380 setup.

[K Simmonds]

That's one of the advantages going for a KKK26/7, they fit easily, not only to the manifold and exhaust but the center section is the same as stock when it comes to fitting oil and water lines, no need for an oil restricting valve for the turbo oil feed either. Normally you can even retain the air box as well, though one capable of 440/450BHP will probably mean making a custom MAF hose as the inlet on the compressor will be larger than stock.

The larger 56mm exit K26 exhaust housings coming in three capacity's 6,8 and ten, the larger you go the more power you can make but the later the spool up will be. An RS2 use's a unique exhaust housing just a little smaller than a normal K26 #6

If you can have a go in well set up RS2+ car as you may be happy with that, you do get a lot of torque very early with a nice wide spread of both power and torque, very driveable and pretty quick. It surprising how much faster it feels than a car with K24, pushing out 280 BHP.

Then again it's not going to cost a great deal more to go for a larger turbo if your fitting uprated rods anyway.