360 versus 450 bhp... Wat is extra needed?

[1975DCS]

Sorry to ask those kind of questions that are partially already answered elsewhere...

But if you would tune an 3B engine to 360 bhp with a GT3071, Rods (to be sure), RS2 gasket, RS2 bearings, RS2 EM, Cam, RS2 injectors what would it need extra to get it to 450 bhp?

I assume the turbo and rods are ready for it? So would it only mean lower CR pistons and bigger injectors? is it that easy?

It almost seems to easy, so... Is the difference so big you must need:
- Bigger intercooler piping and/or re-routing?
- Inlet manifold?
- Even better EM?
- Standalone management / ditching of MAF?
- Coil conversion / Distributorless?
- Upgraded Diverter?
- Bigger WG?

Or are these parts for the 500+ club only?
If you look through the lists on Dahlback and similar you see upgraded everythings and prices of over 20.000 euro for just 480 bhp... Must have some sort of reason... Or do tuners have a different opinion in when to change what?

[terrybullwon]

The GT3071 is good for 450bhp, read Ross's project 400 HTH

[s2dude]

Dahlback wants you to change everything at that sort of cost....He must me making a fortune with those rip off prices

[Jamo]

Dahlback and QST are what we call cheque book tuners, they make you pay for bits twice over that you dont need.

A gt3071 will hit 450 on standard IM, Ross hit 428 on a 3B with small iinjectors, with bigger injections he'd hit 450 i reckon no sweat.

[1975DCS]

So basicly speaking: only the bigger injectors and 8.5:1 CR (and turn up the boost of the GT3071) can lead into about 430-450 bhp...

[1975DCS]

Dahlback wants you to change everything at that sort of cost....He must me making a fortune with those rip off prices

Hence the golden chain around his neck...

[1975DCS]

The GT3071 is good for 450bhp, read Ross's project 400 HTH

Yes I knew... But I was concerned about the other bits... Otherwise we could just as well fit a GT42...

[1975DCS]

Dahlback and QST are what we call cheque book tuners, they make you pay for bits twice over that you dont need.

A gt3071 will hit 450 on standard IM, Ross hit 428 on a 3B with small iinjectors, with bigger injections he'd hit 450 i reckon no sweat.

Yes a bit like MTM/Dahlback/Hohenester etc. But even the "cheaper" KRB Trading and VS Motor state much more work and therefore higher prices for 500 versus 400 bhp... So I thought maybe some kind of barrier is reached... Getting over those can get quite pricey...

[Jamo]

A 2871 will do 450 bhp http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5297

Regarding the compression, no all you have to is use a metal head gasket from an RS2
it will lower compression slightly but it will hold boost as the paper one on the 3B is naff.

[volcano rs]

bigger downpipe and exhaust ?

[MidnightBlueS2]

Dahlback and QST are what we call cheque book tuners, they make you pay for bits twice over that you dont need.

Yup, very true.

Though they are a good source of hard to find custom machined parts for Audi's. I bought the turbo exhaust flange ( they call them flanches ) for my custom made exhaust from them, very good quality, sensible price and super quick delivery...

I'm considering buying some rim spacers from them, the prices seem right... Anyone bought any from them ?

[Jamo]

bigger downpipe and exhaust ?

Yeah, i wrote out a list for a new member a week or two ago

[Ross]

But if you would tune an 3B engine to 360 bhp with a GT3071, Rods (to be sure), RS2 gasket, RS2 bearings, RS2 EM, Cam, RS2 injectors what would it need extra to get it to 450 bhp?

Basically yes. Stick an RS2 IC on that list too, and a decent clutch too, and it's good to go for 400-450. My "little" injectors on 4.2bar FPR made 428bhp, was maxxed though, I'd say you can use them for 400.

I think once you start going for the 450+ range, you need a custom EM, therefore custom intake, better IM, bigger IC and thus a customer crossmember, etc. You are more prone to start eating gearboxes etc too.. all in all I went for the 400 mark as that is an unbelievably fast car that is still reliable for day-to-day without having to go overly custom or have massive lag.

[merlin's S4]

I think once you start going for the 450+ range, you need a custom EM, therefore custom intake, better IM, bigger IC and thus a customer crossmember, etc. You are more prone to start eating gearboxes etc too.. all in all I went for the 400 mark as that is an unbelievably fast car that is still reliable for day-to-day without having to go overly custom or have massive lag.

I was going to say, isn't the RS2 EM maxed out at around 420bhp?

[1975DCS]

Basically yes. Stick an RS2 IC on that list too, and a decent clutch too, and it's good to go for 400-450. My "little" injectors on 4.2bar FPR made 428bhp, was maxxed though, I'd say you can use them for 400.

I think once you start going for the 450+ range, you need a custom EM, therefore custom intake, better IM, bigger IC and thus a customer crossmember, etc. You are more prone to start eating gearboxes etc too.. all in all I went for the 400 mark as that is an unbelievably fast car that is still reliable for day-to-day without having to go overly custom or have massive lag.

Ofcourse... In my list I forgot FPR, Intercooler (at least RS2 spec) and fuelpump...
And yes I have a bit of a worry regarding the gearbox, but I won't be doing standstill starts, maybe this will help... I think the coil (even with a single "motorsport" coil upgrade) is on the limit. But I would be happy with max 450 bhp for costs reasons...