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I am having my boring done after I get the pistons. There are boring instructions on the Ross Pistons website.
I have talk to a local guy that has run Ross in non-racing applications with no issues. Used them in VW's for years.
Dave K.
USA
1991 e//S2 (home built S2 - the only way to get one in USA!)
2001 S4
Yes Mark - those prices are about right - so we could save $100 if we get 3 sets - although I am waiting on confirmation for my requirements - You will want to check your block to see if it needs rebored before you order pistons. One of my cylinders has a bad score - and that very bore has another opposite - typical - but they are going to rebore it to 81.5 - but the good thing now I have decided to go custom is knowing if that doesn't get the score out I can go slightly larger and get the pistons to fit.
I don't know what else to specify on the pistons apart from losing 4.2cc to lower compression.
I pick up the ADU block at the weekend (cheers Steve ).
I will have it re-bored and when thats done I'll know what size pistons I need, Like you, I'll will also go for a modest CR drop, and I would also like them to come with the forced pin oiling option, although I think that all their custom pistons come with that as a matter of course. I am looking at rings.
I am interested in the total seal (gapless) rings.
Dave - becasue of my scoring I need to rebore first to see if 81.5mm is enough. I wouldn't want to order the pistons and then end up with a score still there. I'll know more at the end of this week anyway.
Childs & Albert pioneered the "gapless" rings back in the early 70's. They found a lot of racers willing and waiting for a better way of sealing the gasses effectively in the cylinders. The rings were moderately successful, with most of the people running them in the old Jr. Stock classes, where rules were very strict and prohibitive. As more conventional rings received more and more attention, with all sorts of different alloys and ring face configurations, the gapless rings lost favor.
Total Seal jumped on the gapless bandwagon about the time the "fad" faded out, but as I've mentioned before, they became the first (and only) manufacturer to make metric sized rings, so their gapless designs were often the only rings available for folks rebuilding "foreign" engines. This original "nitch" market turned into quite a large movement as the popularity of "import racing" rose to the heights it's currently enjoying....and with a lot of advertising, Total Seal has capitalized on it.
I've experimented with some of their rings in engines we've built, but I've never seen power that we can achieve with our more conventional Nippon rings. I believe that the reason behind it is due to the fact that the rings aren't as stable in the ring grooves in applications where the ring width is 1mm or less. It's a lot more difficult to achieve a tight fit in the groove with two rings opposed to one.
As you mentioned, with individual rings this thin, they have to be made from HARD material just to stand up, and this causes problems too, with many stock and aftermarket cylinder liners. I'd say that the cylinders would have to be prepared pretty coarsely to seat them in a reasonable time period, and once seated, I seriously doubt that they'd actually "leak" any better than properly gapped conventional rings...assuming you're leaking the cylinders near operating temperature.
We try to configure ring end gaps to when the engine's at maximum operating temperature, the ends will come very, very close to touching each other, without actually butting and scoring the cylinders, so any leakage would be minimal at best. When you think about the tiny bit of gap that gasses must pass through, and the amount of time per stroke this has to occur, going gapless makes even less sense.
Ring stability is, on the other hand, extremely important, and this is where conventional rings are better by a fairly wide margin.
Many domestic ProStock teams are currently having Total Seal make rings for them with special coatings (on the ring sides) and they lap them to achieve the minimum ring to groove clearances they're after. It's interesting to note that none of these rings are of the gapless variety. Being a relatively small company (compared to some of the more prominant OE ring suppliers), Total Seal can, and does make a lot of small-batch "special" rings that work pretty well, but these are a long way from what they're selling over the counter to import racers.
Dover (who owns Wiseco and JE for that matter) made a committment that Wiseco's pieces would not be second to any in the industry several years ago. To that end, Wiseco has the best machining equipment in the industry, and they are the ONLY company (of JE, CP, and Arias) that actually forges and heat-treats their pistons in-house. You could take all of thwe companies I just named and they'd all easily fit under Wiseco's roof.....
I sell wiseco's for $130 each with pins and rings.
Justin, I need a custom set for mine, having a 11.5/12 cc bigger dish on top and 22mm pin. Can you provide this kind of specs at same cost? What about skirt moly coating and crown ceramic coating?
Guys if you arrange a group buy for pistons and rods ( for adu) i might be interested too, if the price is sensible. I will be needing these since i am now fitting a KKK26/27/29 and i will be stressing the engine harder during the summer here in Greece ( 35 d.celcius). Thanks nick
Originally posted by olsonjus Dover (who owns Wiseco and JE for that matter) made a committment that Wiseco's pieces would not be second to any in the industry several years ago. To that end, Wiseco has the best machining equipment in the industry, and they are the ONLY company (of JE, CP, and Arias) that actually forges and heat-treats their pistons in-house. You could take all of thwe companies I just named and they'd all easily fit under Wiseco's roof.....
I sell wiseco's for $130 each with pins and rings.
Best Regards,
Justin Olson
Justin,
Thanks for the explanation on the total seal rings. I have to agree with you 100%. A good file fit set of rings should lose little if any to the total seal.
Now the comment above is a bit of a sales pitch. Just because Dover said he will be second to none doesn't mean he is.
Wiseco are great pistons though...
Can pistons be custom made to specs?
Dave K.
USA
1991 e//S2 (home built S2 - the only way to get one in USA!)
2001 S4
I would be intereseted in a set of Wiseco pistons especially if that price is for custom ones.
I need 81.5mm (this may go to 81.75 depending on rebore), and 4.2cc (approx - need to confirm) taken off each to lower the compression ratio from 9.3:1 to 8.7:1 - that's all I think I want to specify that would be different from a direct replacement. Oh, and the 550bhp and 700Nm spec on them.
What are the leadtimes on custom pistons and on pauter rods?
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