Why did my piston melt?

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  • Audivotee
    S2Forum Tinkerer
    • Nov 2007
    • 9
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Why did my piston melt?

    Hi, can anybody shed any light?

    Earlier this year my ADU engine went bang. When we stripped it down we found that number one piston had a hole in it and had melted, also did damage to a valve, the bore and rings.
    Obviously after a period of deep depression I managed to look on the bright side and replaced the valve stem oil seals and added the Mark H mod. (thanks forum)

    I’m close to the end of the rebuild and would like to know what could have caused the piston to melt in the first place.

    If anyone could help or direct me to a post that would be great.

    Cheers Dave
  • Rusty
    Super Moderator
    • Jun 2004
    • 18953
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    Sounds like it was running too lean. Might be worth checking the injector over in case it's defective and not delivering enough fuel Good luck.
    Cheers'en, AndyC
    1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

    Comment

    • Audivotee
      S2Forum Tinkerer
      • Nov 2007
      • 9
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      Thanks for that, It makes since, after the event it was only firing on four, in fact it was still only firing on four when after the rebuild, It was the next day when we started it up again that it seemed to clear itself.

      Do these things clear themselves or should I take it apart and see if there are any blockages etc (if that’s even possible)?

      Cheers for any help

      Dave

      Comment

      • Flat on my back
        S2Forum Fiend
        • Jan 2007
        • 2449
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        .

        Might be worth getting the injectors checked over...fuel lines flushed and a new filter stuck in.
        Carlos.

        On the look out for less bits for my s2 saloon project. Now supporting myself by shooting for my food. www.airgunforum.co.uk

        Comment

        • 20vQC
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Aug 2007
          • 684
          • Current: Italy

          #5
          I agree with AndyCasey... too lean mix!
          - Looking for a S2
          - Lancia Dedra HF turbo i.e. (4sale)
          - Typ89 Coupè quattro, 20Vt AAN, VEMS, K24-7000@1.3bar (scrapped )

          sigpic

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          • a4kquattro
            S2Forum Addict
            • Feb 2005
            • 411
            • Country: United States

            #6
            hole in piston usually means pre-ignition actually.. going lean usually causes pinging which eats away at the ring lands and the edges of the piston. Not that it cant cause a hole in a piston, but more commonly its pre-ignition that does that.
            Marc Swanson
            Proprietor, EFI Express
            95.5 //S6 Avant
            90' Coupe Quattro V8 4.2L twin turbo
            93' //S4
            83' UrQ
            97' F250 7.3 diesel

            Comment

            • terrybullwon
              S2Forum Zealot
              • Mar 2006
              • 8782
              • Country: England

              #7
              Did the valve leave the head?
              Chef

              Comment

              • Rusty
                Super Moderator
                • Jun 2004
                • 18953
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                Originally posted by a4kquattro
                hole in piston usually means pre-ignition actually.. going lean usually causes pinging which eats away at the ring lands and the edges of the piston. Not that it cant cause a hole in a piston, but more commonly its pre-ignition that does that.
                Faulty coil pack, coil pack wiring, poor mapping then.... has the car been remapped?
                Cheers'en, AndyC
                1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                Comment

                • Audivotee
                  S2Forum Tinkerer
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 9
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #9
                  No the valve stayed put, just a little dig out of it.

                  I didn't here any pinging by the way.

                  I got the impression that it all happened very quickly. The car was running great and at the time of failure I was in the processes of going past a rather irritating Ford focus who had insisted in crawling past a lorry, making me about 45 seconds late. I was trying to make up time!

                  Comment

                  • a4kquattro
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Feb 2005
                    • 411
                    • Country: United States

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Audivotee
                    No the valve stayed put, just a little dig out of it.

                    I didn't here any pinging by the way.

                    I got the impression that it all happened very quickly. The car was running great and at the time of failure I was in the processes of going past a rather irritating Ford focus who had insisted in crawling past a lorry, making me about 45 seconds late. I was trying to make up time!
                    Almost DEFINITELY pre-ignition then. Going lean / detonation is a relatively slow killer while pre-ignition causes immediate and devastating damage.

                    Potential causes of pre-ignition:

                    large carbon deposits in the cylinder causing hot spots, specifically the 'embers' will glow and cause the mixture to explode before the spark event.

                    ignition component failure, EG the infamous 'spark hop' on a 3B engine when the wrong distributor rotor tip is used. Or in the cause of an AAN or ADU motor a misfiring coil (although typically a misfiring coil will *fail* to spark which wont cause pre-ignition.. it needs to spark at the *wrong* time for this to occur).

                    Hope that helps. Sorry to hear about your motor
                    Marc Swanson
                    Proprietor, EFI Express
                    95.5 //S6 Avant
                    90' Coupe Quattro V8 4.2L twin turbo
                    93' //S4
                    83' UrQ
                    97' F250 7.3 diesel

                    Comment

                    • Audivotee
                      S2Forum Tinkerer
                      • Nov 2007
                      • 9
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      Fairly new coil packs and wiring. The car was remapped in late November by a respected company in Banbury

                      Comment

                      • a4kquattro
                        S2Forum Addict
                        • Feb 2005
                        • 411
                        • Country: United States

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Audivotee
                        Fairly new coil packs and wiring. The car was remapped in late November by a respected company in Banbury
                        Oh, I almost forgot, pre-ignition can of course be caused by your ECU telling the plugs to fire for example very early in the compression stroke. It'd have to be *very* bad mapping for that to be the case though, either that or the ecu received an implausible signal that would cause that to occur (trigger errors)
                        Marc Swanson
                        Proprietor, EFI Express
                        95.5 //S6 Avant
                        90' Coupe Quattro V8 4.2L twin turbo
                        93' //S4
                        83' UrQ
                        97' F250 7.3 diesel

                        Comment

                        • Audivotee
                          S2Forum Tinkerer
                          • Nov 2007
                          • 9
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #13
                          Thanks for the pre-ignition thoughts

                          How do I fix this?

                          Comment

                          • Rusty
                            Super Moderator
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 18953
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            De-coke everything (part of the rebuild anyway?)
                            Get it back to Banbury and get it checked over map wise.
                            Cheers'en, AndyC
                            1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                            Comment

                            • EspenW
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 1534
                              • Country: Norway

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Audivotee
                              Hi, can anybody shed any light?

                              Earlier this year my ADU engine went bang. When we stripped it down we found that number one piston had a hole in it and had melted, also did damage to a valve, the bore and rings.
                              Obviously after a period of deep depression I managed to look on the bright side and replaced the valve stem oil seals and added the Mark H mod. (thanks forum)

                              I’m close to the end of the rebuild and would like to know what could have caused the piston to melt in the first place.

                              Cheers Dave
                              Easy: Too much torque delivered by the RS2 turboed ADU, get forged pistons

                              As others have said, probably pre ignition. Remember, though, that detonation can cause pre ignition due to the heat buildup. Overheated spark plug tip, burnt exhaust valve, but most commonly, carbon buildup causing hot spots are the typical causes.
                              what grade of fuel were you running? How much boost?
                              Would not surprise me if this was yet another engine blown due to N75 failure.
                              Check injectors and install A/F gauge and KnockLite.
                              1995 RS2 on Alcohol (6.8sec 100-200km/h)
                              1994 80E Avant
                              1986 2L Golf 2 on Alcohol

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