URs4 now on LPG gas.

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  • diesel des
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Feb 2004
    • 3896

    #1

    URs4 now on LPG gas.

    Ok, so i have had the car off the road for over a year. It needed some work. It got new suspension, koni's and ebach springs. Also some new bushes. The later HP2 s6 brakes. It needed more power so it got a GT2871R turbo from 034, RS2 injectors, RS2 exhaust manifold and a front mount intercooler. The intercooler ment a new RS4 style bumber was required. I would of liked to stay standard, but that just wouldnt allowed the intercooler. The head came off and all the valves were ground in. Arp studs were used with a steel gasket. I wanted a good 350hp maybe 400 tops. But quick spool was really what i wanted hence the 2871.

    I made inlet pipes from Stainless steel 316 and welded with a stick welder on 316 rods. I made a 3 inch exhaust at the front and made a Y piece into the stock after were the cats "should" be. I have it all on v bands and can swap in a 3 inch magnaflow cat for mot in 30 mins.

    Paul did a map for the car that is 99% perfect without even seeing the car! He is working an a second version that will perfect things.

    Now while i like audis (have a URQ) i dont like petrol prices. Thats why im called diesel des and my daily driver was a TDI Mrk2 golf with 2 turbos making close on 300hp. So the 20 mpg at best the s4 got was a kick in the nuts. Especially on a fast run when it goes down to 5 or so mpg... The answer was LPG.

    So I did a fair bit of research and picked a kit made by KME. I fitted all the bits and did the wiring myself. The tank is in the spare wheel well and is a 76L tank. They only fill to 80% to leave room for expansion on a hot day. Thats about 60L then.

    Now the "gas man" i got the stuff off told me i would have no problem with 400hp+ with his special version of his kit. I reckoned i would need 10 injectors, so i drilled and tapped 10 injection points while the inlet manifold was off. I then connected these to the 5 injectors i had, but always had the scope for 5 more.

    So i went to the gas man (called peter) and we started setting the gas ECU up. We hit a few glitches but now the car runs 100% to just over 6K rpm. We spent a few hours trying to find the problem over 6K rpm. It turnes out that my RS2 injectors/petrol ecu go to 100% at that point! That means the gas ecu looses its pulse signal and drops out.

    Now im talking to Paul about tweeking the motronic to reduce the fueling at the top end to keep the petrol injectors going 100%. By the way the 5 gas injectors i worried about are only at 60% when the RS2 units are full open. No need for another 5 then!

    So whats it go like? Well i have a wideband AFR gauge and that helped setting the gas up. I have feel no/very little difference on petrol/gas. Really. It goes like stink to 6K on both. Obviously it wont run over that on gas yet but that will be fixed soon.

    It does 17 MPG on gas when it does 20 on petrol. Gas is 48.5p/L !!!

    The only other glitch is that after a long time at flat out the vapourisor temp reduces untill it passes liquid not gas. This takes about 30 seconds of WOT. BAsicly i need to replumb the water circuit so that i get more hot water through it. Will do that this weekend. If that doesnt do it then i will fit a second vapourisor.

    But the 99% of the time your not above 6K rpm and flat out for 30 seconds it drives like petrol. Have had it to 150+ on gas on a test track

    Any questions work away.

    Cheers,des.
  • UrS4boy
    S2Forum Obsessed
    • Feb 2006
    • 11859
    • Country: Canada

    #2
    Any idea how compressed natural gas would work - or is the energy density just too low?
    RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
    94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

    Comment

    • Greg_S
      Administrator
      • Jul 2003
      • 12430
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      Good write up Des, gonna keep an eye on this since I considered an S4 2.7 on LPG but decided against it on advice I received
      Greg

      S2Forum.com Administrator & Webmaster

      '93 Coupe with a few tweeks

      Comment

      • BRY
        S2Forum Possessed
        • Nov 2004
        • 3755
        • Home: United Nations Current: Vietnam

        #4
        Which KME kit is it?
        Kingdoms are run by Kings, Dictatorships are run by Dictators.
        England must be a Country. :mischeif:

        Comment

        • diesel des
          S2Forum Possessed
          • Feb 2004
          • 3896

          #5
          Update. Now 5K in everything is great. I need bigger than rs2 injectors for the petrol and another map from Paul. Im lookin at about 550cc units. This will allow them to run at 80% max and the gas ecu will be happy. After about a minute on gas at 100% throttle, eg land speed record stuff, the vapourisor still freezes up. When i get a chance i will replace it with 2 smaller units or 1 larger one. Its a KME turbo gold unit.

          Averaging 17mpg. not bad in something that can spank a m3 and do 3 miles in a minute.....

          Comment

          • Acidburn
            S2Forum Obsessed
            • Jun 2007
            • 13459
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            Very nice, what did the kit cost in the end?

            how do you know when you have the 60% gas in the tank?

            Comment

            • diesel des
              S2Forum Possessed
              • Feb 2004
              • 3896

              #7
              It stops letting gas in when its full eg 80% All automatic.

              Comment

              • diesel des
                S2Forum Possessed
                • Feb 2004
                • 3896

                #8
                Oh about £900.

                Comment

                • dimo61
                  S2Forum Hobbyist
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 11
                  • Country: Russian Federation

                  #9
                  Show a photo of an arrangement on the motor
                  For LPG well to increase a degree of compression of the motor.......

                  Comment

                  • Jamo
                    Retired OG Mod
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 21750
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    I've been looking into this for a long time, I've got a friend with a turbo Volvo running 400 bhp and he had the same issues as you.

                    I'll pass on what you found with the injectors!

                    £900 is cheap I was quoted £1700 and above

                    Where have you placed the gas filling nozzle? any pictures mate?

                    Comment

                    • irvind
                      S2Forum Addict
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 316
                      • Country: Scotland

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jamo
                      £900 is cheap I was quoted £1700 and above
                      £1700 and above would be getting someone to do the install for you. Des did a lot of the leg-work himself, so I think the £900 is just for the bits..
                      Irvin

                      '08-'0?:
                      '97 Coupe, Kingfisher Blue
                      '01-'08:
                      '93 ABY Coupe, Milltek cat-back, Alpine dvd Sat-Nav/Changer

                      www.irvinduguid.com

                      Comment

                      • Jamo
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 21750
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Originally posted by irvind
                        £1700 and above would be getting someone to do the install for you. Des did a lot of the leg-work himself, so I think the £900 is just for the bits..
                        It was £1200 for the kit alone, England prices suck

                        Comment

                        • sheppardnias
                          S2Forum Enthusiast
                          • Jan 2008
                          • 170
                          • Country: England

                          #13
                          Sounds good and despite my nightmare experiences with LPG in the past, I am tempted by this. Would be lovely to use the S6 all the time and still having the same running costs as my diesel...


                          Keep the updates coming on how you get on and I'll start putting pennies aside, I think...

                          Comment

                          • dimo61
                            S2Forum Hobbyist
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 11
                            • Country: Russian Federation

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jamo
                            I've been looking into this for a long time, I've got a friend with a turbo Volvo running 400 bhp and he had the same issues as you.
                            Where it is possible to see the description with photos of its project?

                            Comment

                            • diesel des
                              S2Forum Possessed
                              • Feb 2004
                              • 3896

                              #15
                              I havnt any photos. Havnt a digital camera. I have a tow bar and have fitted the filler on it beside the electric socket. Just looks like one of those caravan sockets. You can also fit the filler in the boot. Saw this done on a new nissan. Total stealth.
                              Yea was £900 for the bits alone. The fella would install/supply it for £1500 cash. To be honest im happy enough with my install, but his wok is real tidy with the loom/pipes. Looks more stock.

                              The compresion ratio is stock and max boost 1.6 bar.

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