Dry sump kit

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  • Error404
    Super Moderator
    • Mar 2007
    • 19789
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #16
    Originally posted by aelred
    Yes I agree with your comments and if I could have have enough interest sumps could have been casted for this purpose, or even CNCed, but dont forget I had an order for one right kit as per the pictures (customer wants to retain AC) and two left hand, and one of them drop out half way through.
    So do you think the cost for casting just 3 (in the end 2) sumps? So I had to go with the modified existing one. No choice unless you want to pay huge sums and economic situation doesnt help either.

    BTW dry sumping is not only for lowering the centre of gravity, old Grp B car run dry sumps and probably in the forest were a lot higher on suspension set ups then standard
    Wasn't trying to critique your design mate, wasn't sure i fully understood the reasons behind fitting it that was all
    totally understand its a massive undertaking and total respect for making it happen I guess i'm surprised people want to go to these lengths (and keep A/C ) - must be some hardcore machinery you're workng on for them
    Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
    Indigo ABY coupé
    Imola B6 S4 Avant

    Comment

    • aelred
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Jan 2005
      • 761
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #17
      Originally posted by Error404
      Wasn't trying to critique your design mate, wasn't sure i fully understood the reasons behind fitting it that was all
      totally understand its a massive undertaking and total respect for making it happen I guess i'm surprised people want to go to these lengths (and keep A/C ) - must be some hardcore machinery you're workng on for them
      I did not take it as criticism, dont worry. Any comment is welcome.
      Aelred

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      • volcano rs
        S2Forum Fiend
        • Jun 2005
        • 2265
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #18
        looks good aelred well done

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        • macspring
          S2Forum Zealot
          • Mar 2005
          • 6371
          • Home: Ireland Current: Wallis & Futuna

          #19
          Clarfiaction - Just to be sure to be sure !

          Agreed, mine was an observation, not a criticism.

          As you say one man's meat is another man's poison.

          Comment

          • Jamo
            Retired OG Mod
            • Mar 2004
            • 21750
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #20
            Jesus, pure porn excellent work!

            Comment

            • Rusty
              Super Moderator
              • Jun 2004
              • 18953
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #21
              That's taken a lot of work, nice one

              Quite amusing that your customer wants to retain the AC, gain power form a dry sump, use it to pump some refrigerant round the car, free AC!
              Cheers'en, AndyC
              1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

              Comment

              • anton
                S2Forum Maniac
                • Jan 2005
                • 802
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #22
                brilliant work there aelred, will you be selling this to anyone? what sort of cost?
                there seems to mixed views as to the performance gain with dry sumps, apart from the obvious better lubrication, i have heard that the larger pumps are more efficient resulting in up to 10% power increase, is this true? have you seen any increase?? assuming this engine is fitted now?

                Ant
                91' Coupe quattro 20v - project
                KW V2s and other goodies
                now gone
                03' BMW 330CI - Sold
                08' A5 Coupe 3.0l tdi quattro - Sold
                57' BMW 525d M Sport Touring

                Comment

                • Flat on my back
                  S2Forum Fiend
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 2449
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #23
                  .

                  Its not about power increases, but reducing losses...of the crank rotating in litres of oil.

                  The real benefit is safety...minimal risk of oil starvation during hard cornering and accel/decel.

                  If your building a 'full on' track/drag machine this is the way to go.

                  Stunning work.
                  Carlos.

                  On the look out for less bits for my s2 saloon project. Now supporting myself by shooting for my food. www.airgunforum.co.uk

                  Comment

                  • aelred
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Jan 2005
                    • 761
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #24
                    As Carlos says it about reducing loses. A drysump kit will deliver constant supply of oil under extreme conditions ie: on long hard fast cornering. I observed as a passenger on a S2 with normal good running pressure of 5 bar the oil pressure dropped as much as 2 bars, (driver probably does not notice this as he is highly concentrating on his driving), this is caused by the cornering forces throwing the oil to the side of the engine and making the oil pick up pipe suck air, also the oil and pump will be airated due to the crank hitting the oil and making the oil like if it was in a whisk, and the higher the revs the higher the whisking action. There is also an amount of drag as the crank is hitting the oil. Also the oil as it is stored in a separate tank and cooled via an oil coooler will remove more heat from the engine than in a wet sump with oil cooler. The pump can be set to a pressure as required as it is adjustable via the pressure relief valve. The pump will deliver more oil then standard per minute. Also you can rev the engine higher than with standard pump, plus simple mathematics more revs= more power (provided everything is up to the job)

                    So to conclude:
                    Less drag on crank
                    Removes heat from engine
                    More safe
                    Less or no air due to the whisking action
                    Maybe able to distribute to some degree weight
                    Larger oil capacity
                    No breather system required
                    Adjustability to the oil pressure as required
                    More revs=more power

                    Biggest drawback:
                    The COST

                    I hope this answer some of the question that people have and are not fully aware of the benefits to dry sumping, of course this applies to a big high revving BHP engine, as a road engine the benefits do not justify the cost.

                    My wife just read this and she fully understood the concept of dry sumping now!
                    Aelred

                    Comment

                    • S2central.net
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 16590
                      • Country: Northern Ireland

                      #25
                      For some reason I thought dry sumps ran with an electric pump to further save on drivetrain loss (versus a belt driven pulley off the crank). Nice looking bit of kit though !

                      Paul
                      Paul Nugent
                      Webmaster http://S2central.net
                      Administrator http://S2forum.com

                      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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                      • quattro
                        S2Forum Maniac
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 768
                        • Home: Wales Current: England

                        #26
                        Im toying with the idea of a dry sump and im only running a street/track day car, i have moticed the oil pressure drop and have had very noisy tappets after a harsh run, i ubderstand the loss of power through the splashing effect, maby we could get a dyno of the losses before & after fitting of the sump or is this not possibe?
                        Probably the longet S2 project in history EVER!

                        Comment

                        • DJ-ROY
                          S2Forum Maniac
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 710
                          • Country: Netherlands

                          #27
                          This is so cool specialy for trackdays when you corner really hard:mischeif:

                          GREAT work ...
                          RS for ‘Rennsport’ - ‘Motorsport’ in German

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                          • aelred
                            S2Forum Maniac
                            • Jan 2005
                            • 761
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #28
                            Electric pump

                            Originally posted by S2central.net
                            For some reason I thought dry sumps ran with an electric pump to further save on drivetrain loss (versus a belt driven pulley off the crank). Nice looking bit of kit though !

                            Paul
                            There are electric pumps to do this job, but oil pressure and flow rates are nowhere near as good as a mechanical pump that I know of.
                            Aelred

                            Comment

                            • Ski
                              S2Forum Fiend
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 2591
                              • Home: Poland Current: United Kingdom

                              #29
                              Thanks for the explination Aelred that really does make sense. 1 question however, why is it called a "Dry" sump when there is nothing dry about it?
                              ABY Coupe
                              sigpic

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                              • aelred
                                S2Forum Maniac
                                • Jan 2005
                                • 761
                                • Country: United Kingdom

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Ski
                                Thanks for the explination Aelred that really does make sense. 1 question however, why is it called a "Dry" sump when there is nothing dry about it?
                                As the oil it is taken away to a remote reservoir continuously, there is no oil in the sump, there is no deep stick. Wet sump is when oil is kept in the sump at all time.
                                Yes there will be residue of oil in the sump per say it is dry.
                                Aelred

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