The Altitude Sensor (F96)

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  • S2central.net
    Retired OG Mod
    • Jul 2003
    • 16590
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #1

    The Altitude Sensor (F96)

    Spent some quality time testing this today... It lives behind the passenger side A-pillar.

    I'll update s2central.net with detailed info and a graph etc but here's a summary of findings that confirms what I got from the OFRM - and my tests went further.

    This sensor is essentially a variable potentiometer (pot) that provides a voltage reference into one pin on the ECU which it uses to derive altitude and therefore ambient pressure information.

    As ambient air pressure decreases with increased altitude this is very important... The turbo boost needs to be reduced at high altitude in thin air to prevent it overspinning.

    WIth a voltmeter it is worth doing a quick test on your altitude sensor - applies to 3B, AAN, ABY & ADU engines here - though note location is slightly different on AAN.

    Measuring voltage across pin 1 and pin 3 you should observe the following:

    You need the ignition turned on, and if you have VAGCOM you can observe the ambient pressure in Group 2 with the engine running...

    4.16V at 1020.8mbar (I live close to sea level so thats about right)

    If you disconnect the sensor, the ECU throws up a fault code and assumes a pressure of 968mbar (somewhat high altitude).

    By manipulating the sensor internals I was able to plot an approximate graph of the devices dynamic range.

    Its essentially linear from a minimum value of 0.35V at ~600mbar to a max of 4.3V at 1034bar.

    I took a test drive with the value fudged at the minimum for max altitude - expecting to see a reduction in boost pressure at WOT - that wasn't always the case and I got several boost cutouts along the way. Very odd - clearly the ABY doesn't like this much.

    I then read in the OFRM for ABY that the alt sensor voltage should be no lower than 0.5V and actually no higher 4.0V - I dunno how accurate that needs to be but it tells me something.

    On the RS2, with its support for trailer coupling via the Motronic coding plug - it pulls this pin to 0.3V on the ECU when the trailer is attached to emulate 600mbar and a max boost reduced performance of 162kW while towing (versus 232kW on factory chips).

    The altitude and temperature compensation maps in the boost chips are still puzzling me - I nearly had it, but not quite...

    I think I need to dig deep and get an EPROM emulator to do this more thoroughly...

    Anyway - I thought this info is worth sharing - especially the horrible driving at WOT - looks like a faulty alt sensor can throw off the ECU without raising an alarm... One to check if chasing boost cutouts !


    Paul
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't
  • shark_90
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Mar 2007
    • 1475
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    Good info as always
    1994 Audi S2 Avant - in pieces
    2006 Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0TFSi - goes fast
    1985 Audi 90 quattro - is wet

    Don't forget the East Midlands Meet -Last Tuesday of every month at 7:30pm just off M1 J28!![/COLOR]

    Comment

    • s2driveruk
      Super Moderator
      • Jul 2003
      • 12696
      • Country: England

      #3
      Paul, wasnt a faulty altitude sensor the problem Jim had with Blu?
      sigpic

      1992 3b S2 Coupe

      Comment

      • terrybullwon
        S2Forum Zealot
        • Mar 2006
        • 8782
        • Country: England

        #4
        I had a interesting chat with Newsh about this over a few years back, It can be cheated?
        Chef

        Comment

        • S2central.net
          Retired OG Mod
          • Jul 2003
          • 16590
          • Country: Northern Ireland

          #5
          Yes it can be overriden - with care !
          Paul Nugent
          Webmaster http://S2central.net
          Administrator http://S2forum.com

          1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
          2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
          2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

          Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

          There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

          Comment

          • UrS4boy
            S2Forum Obsessed
            • Feb 2006
            • 11859
            • Country: Canada

            #6
            Good information.

            If you go to the link below, you can see how the physically F96 works and also the description of the "Substitution Function":

            The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums
            Last edited by UrS4boy; 12 June 2012, 20:22.
            RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
            94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

            Comment

            • k.alle
              S2Forum Maniac
              • Feb 2008
              • 801
              • Country: Sweden

              #7
              I measured mine before and I got:

              Voltage
              Pin 1 -> 3: 3.942 Volts

              I'm about sea level, is that voltage right?

              Had/having some on-boost problems/hesitations, could that one cause it or should I focus elsewhere?
              Audi S2 -1994 | 480 Hp 650 Nm | FlexFuel | MaxxECU | 3" Stainless | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
              http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

              Comment

              • Rusty
                Super Moderator
                • Jun 2004
                • 18953
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                Good work as ever Paul. An override circuit would be a nice plan but it's building in a failsafe so that if you stray from say a range of 0-1000ft above sea level then the turbo doesn't mince itself by thinking it's at sea level when it's not! Easily done I'm sure but by someone who's electronically minded unlike me
                Cheers'en, AndyC
                1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                Comment

                • S2central.net
                  Retired OG Mod
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 16590
                  • Country: Northern Ireland

                  #9
                  Originally posted by UrS4boy
                  Good information.

                  If you go to the link below, you can see how the physically F96 works and also the description of the "Substitution Function":

                  http://forums.audiworld.com/s4s6/msgs/150037.phtml
                  Yeah Dave - I like to add info over and above what can be plaguerised or simply scanned from Audi OFRMs and training manuals - I have shelves full of them, but sometimes the raw info is just not useful to a lot of people...

                  Knowing how it works is one thing, but figuring out how to do some something more valuable is generally not so easy.
                  Paul Nugent
                  Webmaster http://S2central.net
                  Administrator http://S2forum.com

                  1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                  2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                  2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                  Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                  There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                  Comment

                  • UrS4boy
                    S2Forum Obsessed
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 11859
                    • Country: Canada

                    #10
                    That info was more for people other than you so they could see how the altitude sensor works. But hey, if you want to bitchslap me for trying to help, so be it.

                    And BTW, plagerization would be IF I claimed that I wrote the info that I linked to (which I didn't). Some people don't have access to the self-study manuals and appreciate seeing the contents.
                    RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                    94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                    Comment

                    • madpugger
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 1901
                      • Country: Scotland

                      #11
                      Hmmm, mine has been stuttering badly on WOT since the homefry ( I am not suggesting the homefry is at fault - I need time to investigate but I suspect the DV is not tight enough) but this looks like a route maybe?

                      But, for ADU owners, this could be useful... Not the altitude part as such, but the trailer towing part? A switch on the dash that makes the car think it is towing to give you a lower power (fuel saving?) map???

                      Le Mans 2012
                      Nurburgring 700
                      1995 S2 Avant

                      Comment

                      • UrS4boy
                        S2Forum Obsessed
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 11859
                        • Country: Canada

                        #12
                        Originally posted by madpugger
                        But, for ADU owners, this could be useful... Not the altitude part as such, but the trailer towing part? A switch on the dash that makes the car think it is towing to give you a lower power (fuel saving?) map???
                        Just disconnect the WGFV and you have a low compression 7A.
                        RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                        94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                        Comment

                        • madpugger
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 1901
                          • Country: Scotland

                          #13
                          Yeah, but surely thats way too little power!

                          Le Mans 2012
                          Nurburgring 700
                          1995 S2 Avant

                          Comment

                          • UrS4boy
                            S2Forum Obsessed
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 11859
                            • Country: Canada

                            #14
                            Originally posted by madpugger
                            Yeah, but surely thats way too little power!
                            People are never happy, even when you give them easy solutions.

                            How about this one: Limit the power with your right foot placed on the throttle pedal.

                            Heard it works a treat.
                            RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                            94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

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