ECU Safe Mode Problem

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  • SR71
    S2Forum Addict
    • Apr 2004
    • 330
    • Country: Wales

    #1

    ECU Safe Mode Problem

    Hi,

    I found this forum a few days ago...

    I have a 1994 S2 Coupe with 140K on it...had it about a year. Probably the best car I've owned. Had a couple of Celica GT4's in the past which I've enjoyed. Turbocharged cars are addictive.

    I've had a search through the forums and wonder if anyone can shed any light on my particular problem...

    I've had the car about a year during which time I've had it serviced a couple of times, replaced the PAS pump and thats about it....

    However, recently, very much like my Celica GT4 sometimes did, the car would appear to be going into a "reduced boost mode".

    Its a shame the car doesn't have a boost gauge (although its not hard to fit I imagine), but, in what has been a gradual progression to an event which used to happen occasionally, its is now going into "reduced boost mode" almost every time I go out in the car.

    In my GT4, this used to happen if the boost exceeded 16psi, when you got fuel cut and "ran into the brick wall".

    In the S2 I seem to get the problem/be able to provoke it when the turbo is under maximum load i.e, when accelerating from low rpms in high gears.

    I have discovered (again like my GT4) that if I turn the ignition off and on again (while rolling), this "re-sets" the ECU (I presume?) and I am immediately able to regain the normal performance that the car puts out.

    My analysis and suggestion of the problems cause is, however, presently purely based on my experience with another model of turbo-charged car.

    I wonder whether this is a typical problem on the S2?

    I have thought that the following might be causes:

    1) Blocked fuel filter - I understand this is not a serviceable item on the S2 as it requires the tank to be dropped to change! Huh! Seems crazy. However, I would expect that I would see power down across the spectrum of the cars rev range if this were the case.

    2) Dodgy knock sensor - Again I am not sure whether the car has a knock sensor and requires replacing by the time the car has the number of miles on it that mine has? Any comments?

    3) Blocked injectors - Similar to 1), I would expect this problem to manifest itself *all* the time if so.

    4) An overboosting turbo - Perhaps a split hose somewhere? Might this require adjustment to the waste-gate?

    As I indicate, I am not an expert on the matter at all and have no experience of the S2, and wonder whether any of the experts on the site might divest themselves of some of their diagnostic expertise regards my problem.

    I'd be much obliged, as it is somewhat irritating not knowing whether the Porsche next to you is going to be able to get away from you or not.



    May I say what a pleasure it has been finally finding a site with some real gurus on it. Made my day!

    Regards,

    SR71
    00 Audi B5 S4 MRC550
    08 RRS TDV6 HSE
    03 Kawasaki B2 ZX12R 1287cc
  • Sidspud
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Jul 2003
    • 1223
    • Home: Scotland Current: United Nations

    #2
    You more than likely have a boost leak. The main culprit is the intercooler O-ring and/or a dodgy hose.

    Do a search on the site for boost leak. You'll find hundreds of posts about it. I think we've all had the problem at one time or another and it is VERY annoying.
    ex '93 Avant owner

    Comment

    • S2central.net
      Retired OG Mod
      • Jul 2003
      • 16590
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #3
      SR71

      You almost certainly have an air leak. Not uncommon on a car of your miles - usually cheap to fix - but can be a nightmare to find if you are new to the mysterious ways of the S2's engine room.

      Settle yourself into the S2-Forum with copious amounts of your favourite drink and look thru the archived threads on this subject. Owning of these cars is an education.

      Lesson 1 - never confuse 'overboost' with 'maximum overboost exceeded'. One is good and one is bad.

      BTW - resetting the ECU (without OBD) requires the fuses to be pulled for a minute or so. Fault codes, and safe mode, are stored whilst battery is present.


      Paul
      Paul Nugent
      Webmaster http://S2central.net
      Administrator http://S2forum.com

      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

      Comment

      • SR71
        S2Forum Addict
        • Apr 2004
        • 330
        • Country: Wales

        #4
        Cheers guys.

        I'll check all the lines and see if there is an offending split line.
        No doubt it'll be a bit of this in the meantime.



        SR71
        00 Audi B5 S4 MRC550
        08 RRS TDV6 HSE
        03 Kawasaki B2 ZX12R 1287cc

        Comment

        • SR71
          S2Forum Addict
          • Apr 2004
          • 330
          • Country: Wales

          #5
          Right leak sorted. Car running nicely again.


          Next question...

          Does anyone have a schematic of the S2 inlet/turbo/exhaust system?
          Kind of like this one: http://member.newsguy.com/~gtfour/te...urbo%20Control ?

          I presume when Audi guru's refer to the WGFV, they mean something akin to Toyota's VSV?

          The leak was in the line that runs from (if I understand correctly) the wastegate to the WGFV....make sense?

          Further question...

          Paul - What % duty are the injectors working at after the homefry modification to the ECU? I see the suggestion is in http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showpos...38&postcount=8 that the stock injectors are good for ~100-120hp above the standard spec car? There are no fuelling issues with the home-frys? No uprated FPR necessary?

          Cheers guys!

          00 Audi B5 S4 MRC550
          08 RRS TDV6 HSE
          03 Kawasaki B2 ZX12R 1287cc

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #6
            Yep - the WGFV on the S2 is kinda like the GT4's VSV, but the plumbing is different. I do have pics like that for the Audi system somewhere.

            That pipe from the WG to WGFV isn't something you can just replace with a little piece of ordinary silicone hose by the way - it needs to be temp resistant stuff for the extreme heat down there. SFS do something suitable in 8mm diameter for that hose. Nicely re-inforced to.

            As for fuelling on the 'home fries' - they absolutely work with stock injectors and stock FPR. I couldn't quote you a duty cycle off my head at WOT, but there is plenty of margin in that for the 280bhp homefries.

            Problems will incurr if your fuel filter is badly blocked or the pump is down on pressure as this will give very lean running on the homefries. Amazingly some factory chipped S2's can drive thru such problems as the factory chips are quite rich in fact and of course have more tolerance for such defects.

            Paul
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • GandalfS6
              S2Forum Addict
              • Jan 2004
              • 332
              • Country: South Africa

              #7
              SR71 - do yourself a favour and replace your fuel filter! It is a problem on the Avant, but you have a Coupe and it is a 15 minute job. I replaced mine tonight, and even though it was not the original Audi Part (which means somebody changed it previously - but then the car has nearly 200 K miles on it) it is difficult to blow through the old filter. So much for a life long filter . I bet you a beer (when I am in Cardiff or you are in Johannesburg) that after 140K you will struggle to blow through the filter!


              The Fram part number is G3744. If you want I can posts some pics of how to do it.

              Also, use some Fuel Injector Cleaner (I use Wynn's) with your next 3 tanks of petrol. I use a bottle every 4th tank just to make sure the injectors are clean and it makes a huge difference. I drove a friend's Pajero with 50K on the clock a while ago, and it was pulling really badly (tough call to make if you are used to S cars) - I bought some Fuel Injector Cleaner and after 50 miles it felt much better. You could also have the injector professionally cleaned and tested but that is expensive. I believe that Fuel Injector Cleaner is the cheapest mod on a car with high milage if it hasn't been used before.
              1995 Silver S2 (ADU) Coupe
              2006 Porsche 997 Carrera S
              2006 Misano Red RS4
              2004 VW Touareg V8
              2007 Golf Mk1 Race Car
              2004 Mercedes Benz Vito 112CD

              Comment

              • SR71
                S2Forum Addict
                • Apr 2004
                • 330
                • Country: Wales

                #8
                Paul - If you PM me a link to those schematics, much obliged... I'll be in the market for a homefry soon I reckon!

                GandalfS6 - Fuel filter sounds like a must! If you can post/PM me the shots of the process/location, much obliged. I may be in SA at the end of the year so the bet could be on... I'll sniff around for some injector cleaner as I've suspected that in the last 140K, at least a few tankfuls have been dodgy.
                00 Audi B5 S4 MRC550
                08 RRS TDV6 HSE
                03 Kawasaki B2 ZX12R 1287cc

                Comment

                • GandalfS6
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 332
                  • Country: South Africa

                  #9
                  The filter is on the left side of the car, just in front of the rear wheel. You can see it there quite easily (see pic). Remove the plastic cover (be careful the cover on my car was cracked) with a 10mm socket. There is one extra 10mm nut that holds the filter bracket.

                  Using a 17 mm socket on the left side and a 19mm on the right side, together with a open ended spanner (19 on my new filter and 25 on the old filter) remove the bolts on each side of the filter. Be ready for some fuel to run out, the filter holds quite a bit.

                  Undo the bracket (10mm), slide the old filter out and the new one in. Use new washers supplied with the filter. The bolts on the side of the filter needs to be torqued 23 Nm. Refit the plastic cover (not too hard on these bolts!)

                  Start the car - will take a few seconds for fuel to get through, and check for leaks.

                  Thats it really - I'll see you in Joburg!

                  Originally posted by SR71
                  Paul - If you PM me a link to those schematics, much obliged... I'll be in the market for a homefry soon I reckon!

                  GandalfS6 - Fuel filter sounds like a must! If you can post/PM me the shots of the process/location, much obliged. I may be in SA at the end of the year so the bet could be on... I'll sniff around for some injector cleaner as I've suspected that in the last 140K, at least a few tankfuls have been dodgy.
                  Attached Files
                  1995 Silver S2 (ADU) Coupe
                  2006 Porsche 997 Carrera S
                  2006 Misano Red RS4
                  2004 VW Touareg V8
                  2007 Golf Mk1 Race Car
                  2004 Mercedes Benz Vito 112CD

                  Comment

                  • GandalfS6
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 332
                    • Country: South Africa

                    #10
                    A pic from the bottom.
                    Attached Files
                    1995 Silver S2 (ADU) Coupe
                    2006 Porsche 997 Carrera S
                    2006 Misano Red RS4
                    2004 VW Touareg V8
                    2007 Golf Mk1 Race Car
                    2004 Mercedes Benz Vito 112CD

                    Comment

                    • SR71
                      S2Forum Addict
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 330
                      • Country: Wales

                      #11
                      Originally posted by GandalfS6
                      The Fram part number is G3744. If you want I can posts some pics of how to do it.
                      Cheers for the shots GandalfS6!
                      That abbreviation "Fram"....
                      Not familiar with that.
                      Is that the original Audi part #?
                      00 Audi B5 S4 MRC550
                      08 RRS TDV6 HSE
                      03 Kawasaki B2 ZX12R 1287cc

                      Comment

                      • SR71
                        S2Forum Addict
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 330
                        • Country: Wales

                        #12
                        Originally posted by S2central.net
                        As for fuelling on the 'home fries' - they absolutely work with stock injectors and stock FPR. I couldn't quote you a duty cycle off my head at WOT, but there is plenty of margin in that for the 280bhp homefries.
                        Paul
                        Hi Paul,

                        If I check http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthr...ight=injectors and http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3067 and consult
                        http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm, it gives me a headache...amongst other things!

                        I find that for the expected homefry power gain (~280hp), if the stock fuel pressure is 4 bar (~59psi) on the ABY, and the stock injectors are 320cc/min, then for a Brake Specific Fuel Consumption of 0.625 (I've used the stock horsepower figures and injector size to calculate that the stock car operates at BSFC = 0.62), the predicted capacity of the injectors at 100% duty is 316cc/min at 43.5psi i.e., 3 bar.

                        A 316cc/min injector running at 4 bar should therefore be rated @ 366cc/min and yet it would appear that the stock injectors are only 320cc/min!



                        If I want to operate at 80% duty with this horsepower, with the ABY fuel pressure of 4 bar, the calculations suggest I need a ~460cc/min injector rated @ 4 bar not the 320cc/min it would appear we have!

                        Again this seems to correlate with my GT4 experience. The Celica GT4 has IIRC 440cc/min (rated @ 38psi) injectors which were generally accepted as being good for running 16psi of boost which equated to ~280hp.

                        That said, numerous owners seem to be running homefrys with no evidence of leaning out from what I see here. Has anyone measured their AFR's post-mods?

                        Am I missing something?
                        00 Audi B5 S4 MRC550
                        08 RRS TDV6 HSE
                        03 Kawasaki B2 ZX12R 1287cc

                        Comment

                        • GandalfS6
                          S2Forum Addict
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 332
                          • Country: South Africa

                          #13
                          Fram makes filters www.fram.com - I have no problem using their filter rather than the Audi part.
                          1995 Silver S2 (ADU) Coupe
                          2006 Porsche 997 Carrera S
                          2006 Misano Red RS4
                          2004 VW Touareg V8
                          2007 Golf Mk1 Race Car
                          2004 Mercedes Benz Vito 112CD

                          Comment

                          • Mihnea
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 1288
                            • Home: Belgium Current: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            The ABY injectors are ok until 320 HP and about 1.1 Bar of boost at 7k RPM with 12.2 AFR. BTDT, measured, tuned, and re-measured all that quite a while back.

                            Don't worry about most of the crap that's on most websites out there, the ABY injectors are more than fine for what the stock turbo can do.

                            Another thing: DON'T EVER (I mean EVER) use any FRAM filters on your car, wether for fuel, oil, air or whatever else. Only OEM, Bosch, Mann, Mahle and Knecht which are OEMs. If you want to know what a Fram oil filter does to an inline-5 cylinder engine, try it, you'll see for yourself.

                            HTH,

                            Mihnea, tuning Audi engines all over the world.

                            Originally posted by SR71
                            Hi Paul,

                            If I check http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthr...ight=injectors and http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3067 and consult
                            http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm, it gives me a headache...amongst other things!

                            I find that for the expected homefry power gain (~280hp), if the stock fuel pressure is 4 bar (~59psi) on the ABY, and the stock injectors are 320cc/min, then for a Brake Specific Fuel Consumption of 0.625 (I've used the stock horsepower figures and injector size to calculate that the stock car operates at BSFC = 0.62), the predicted capacity of the injectors at 100% duty is 316cc/min at 43.5psi i.e., 3 bar.

                            A 316cc/min injector running at 4 bar should therefore be rated @ 366cc/min and yet it would appear that the stock injectors are only 320cc/min!



                            If I want to operate at 80% duty with this horsepower, with the ABY fuel pressure of 4 bar, the calculations suggest I need a ~460cc/min injector rated @ 4 bar not the 320cc/min it would appear we have!

                            Again this seems to correlate with my GT4 experience. The Celica GT4 has IIRC 440cc/min (rated @ 38psi) injectors which were generally accepted as being good for running 16psi of boost which equated to ~280hp.

                            That said, numerous owners seem to be running homefrys with no evidence of leaning out from what I see here. Has anyone measured their AFR's post-mods?

                            Am I missing something?
                            '98 Silver Grey 2.7T S4, dual 2.75" turbo back exhaust with no cats, FMIC, BIG injectors, 10 Bar motorsport fuel pump, modded RS4 turbos, tubular exhaust manifolds, custom intakes, RS4 MAF, Bilstein PSS9, H&R ARBs, 19" BBS CH, custom remap, 511 BHP/505ft-lbs

                            www.MRCTuning.com
                            info@MRCTuning.com
                            Workshop Directions

                            Comment

                            • SR71
                              S2Forum Addict
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 330
                              • Country: Wales

                              #15
                              Cheers Mihnea.

                              Sounds like a homefry is needed on return from my vacation then!
                              00 Audi B5 S4 MRC550
                              08 RRS TDV6 HSE
                              03 Kawasaki B2 ZX12R 1287cc

                              Comment

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