RS2 Turbo's and Exhaust Manifolds

[S2central.net]

AkoJacko -

Never mind what AMDs rollers estimate at the flywheel - what power and torque was measured at the wheels ?

Don't get me wrong about AMD - they have a good reputation and look after the current generation of s-cars, the new RS brigade and TT driving hairdressers receptionists, BUT they just don't have the depth of knowledge on the S2 and UR since the departure of one of their founders a while back. Occasionally, AMD do contract that guy in for special jobs, so you might have had a proper remapping if that was the case on your car.

I have seen with my own eyes the proof of this normal lack of S2 chipping expertise at AMD on Paul Jenkinson's AMD chipped car as they only modified the boost chip - no changes at all were made to the fuel/timing - not very encouraging when you note the 500 quid plus price for such a job. Then there is the VERY questionable rolling road losses which can be used to hugely increase the flywheel claims.

Paul J's ABY showed 197bhp at the wheels on AMDs dyno.
My own ABY chips showed 212bhp at the wheels at PTS. I'm confident the PTS rollers (or more correctly - the computer algorithm which estimates transmission loss on the rollers) is much more accurate than AMD's cos I have seen healthy stock ABY and 3B come out with ~230hp and ~220hp at the flywheel with PTS.

Would be more than happy to supply you with alternate chips for your existing setup. Actually you could try both ECUs at the same independent rollers for an unbiased comparison.

I think that's called putting your chips where your mouth is. Got the munchies now

Paul

[akojacko]

paul geoff did the remap who was one of the original founders of amd so i could be ok. 271bhp at the wheels .lost 108 bhp through transmision. cant remember torque fig but it is on there.i'll av a look tonight.dont really want to re-chip when and if i go to 430ish,if wots on is ok . it'll be costing enough as it is . but will bear yuor offer in mind. thx.

[Doug_RS2]

Ako,

I know you don't have the RS2 turbo but when does the turbo kick in? Is it dead on 3500rpm? That would tell you if you have RS2 chips.

Mine was done by Geoff as well, but, I have the 3500rpm kick which I think means they are just using the RS2 chips and even if I wasn't getting more power I'm still going to let paul and Mihnea remap it - the extra power is a bonus.

[akojacko]

doug not sure if its dead on 3500rpm but it is certianly somewhere around that the the boost shoots from say 8/9 psi straight to 24psi. gonna have to meet up with u lot . a bit pissed that i cant make it to meet on 30th 31st, working both days

[S2central.net]

Ako -

If Geoff did it then you'll at least have two modified chips

108bhp transmission loss does sound a lot though.

If you go on the ready reckoner rule of 25% transmission loss, that would correlate to 432bhp which hardly sounds right.

The 25% rule works out about right on stock and chipped 3B, ABYs that I have seen eg My 280bhp at the flywheel is derived from transmision loss of 70bhp (25%), and I think its about 55bhp losses for a stock 3B pushing 220bhp.

Using the 25% rule, would give you ~360bhp (based on 270bhp at the wheels divided by 75%) which smells about right for a conservatively mapped K26/27 like yours. That would be 90bhp transmission loss (versus AMD's gambit of 108bhp).

Would be interested to know how rich it runs at WOT.

There's probably some scope in the ECU for additional gains (maybe another 5-10% power) and quicker spool up with more torque below 3000rpm, but I agree that additional mods are required to get to the desired 430bhp. Torque must be kept below 550Nm (~400lbft) for the sake of the standard conrods.


1. The 'S1' manifold variant for the K26 hot side
2. RS2 intercooler (or bigger)
3. 7A or ADU exhaust camshaft
4. New software (chips)
5. Maybe an RS2 or bigger MAF

Cheers,

Paul

[Mihnea]

@Paul: if the K26 hot side is a #6, which I seriously think it is, there's almost nothing more to be had to it, no quicker spool-up nor more HP, the #6 hot side gives boost at 3500 period and it's self-limited to 380-ish HP. The RS2 hot side however is a #6 as well but smaller, which means it can make boost earlier than 3500 and which it happily does!


Mihnea

[S2central.net]

Yep - good point... I think the K26 #8 hot side is the right answer for quick roadgoing purposes. That works with the S1 manifold - as proven by MarkH's turbonetics clone and others.

Obviously it is better at the high rev range than the #6 derivatives cos it flows so much better so I could argue that maybe the #6 is better for day-day low-medium tractability/torque.

Bet this thread continues a while huh


Paul

[akojacko]

thanks guys mucho appreciated.

[Greg_S]

with RS2 turbo and Exhaust Manifold fitted. is it possible to run on standard ABY engine chip to take it for a re chip RR etc?

Was wondering this since i would think the ECU will regulate the boost in the same manner as it would for standard ABY on an S2 turbo.

Ta

[Josh-stateside]

Yah I have to admit this tread is highly informative.

You think you know so much and there is miles more to learn..
I know how to swap in aby. Now it's a matter of finishing it and learning how to tune the motor.

But I am really happy with this little investment.
All stepping stones in the right direction.

[Josh-stateside]

I sappose the best thing I can do being from the states is to mention all the things going on with tuning on this side of the atlantic. That's reasonably priced.


Turbo options:
http://www.034efi.com/Hybrid_turbos.html

This is Javads site.

http://www.intendedacceleration.com/

This is ned richies site.. He sells a Rs2 replica exhaust manifold
and a bunch of other stuff.

http://www.audifans.com/

This site has mailing list and a classifieds section.. To be honest people who are willing to ship to the states.. it would be appreciated if you post some of your S2 stuff. ;-)

[Josh-stateside]

Forgot this one, Very nice informative site:

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/

[Doug_RS2]

josh - have you got pictures of your conversion on a webpage?

[Josh-stateside]

I have a good amount starting to make there way online. However the quality is not that great.

I need to find time to look into a new digital camera.

I am still trying to figure out my internet server too.
I can upload picture onto my site, but I don't have a site for everyone to see.








Long story.. Short I will have a nice web site up at some point.

I am not much of the computer informed person.. I do well enough but it takes time. However I am comparing myself to all my buddies who are computer techs.

[Jeffer]

@ Paul

What conrods do you recomend at exceeding 500 HP?

Greets