Main radiator fan/cowl questions...

[Josh-stateside]

Hi guys.

After taking apart my radiator I noticed that the radiator fan connectors were burnt. I am thinking that this has alot to do with why my 7a motor dropped a valve. The fan motor allways worked but I don't remember if all speeds worked. I am not about to take any chances with this motor so another fan motor will be going in. It's a bit weird thought. The fan motor bosch part # listed on my fan is the same as the 3b motor:

165 959 465 ae
this is rated as a 350/150w 305mm fan

The stock coupe quattro 7a fan motor is rated as a
250/150/ 280mm fan

Now I know I have a 3b fan motor but however the 280mm fan is attached to it. Could my stock 7a fan wiring not been able to handle the load of the fan motor? How can I resolve this issuse?

How about a "Fuseable link"

The sport quattro fan:

443959455h

700w 352mm

the fan cowl is the same as my 7a motor.

So am I reading this right? as 700 potential watts from the sport quattro fan?

Anyone know what type of electrical connector is on the back of a sport quattro radiator fan?????

Thanks
Josh

[s2avant]

The sport quattro fan is indeed 700 watts. It is the same as the one fitted to a audi 100 2.0 TD (82-91).

It is a 3 stage fan and has three relays to control it. Stage 1 and 2 are controlled by standard 30A relays (141 951 253 B) and the 3rd stage is controlled by a 50A relay (8D0 951 253).

The connector on the back is 3 pin (443 959 840)

You'll need to seriously uprate the wiring though. And watch out for it sucking things through the grille when it comes on to full power.

Ben

[s2driveruk]

I cant remember what the current draw is on a 3b but make sure all the connections are clean and reliable - i had a short on mine and the voltage spike burnt/melted the fusebox causing £500 worth of damage 2 days before a holiday I think it draws something like 50A.....

If you can put a fuse in it somewhere - should really help - i think the fan wiring was created after a liquid lunch on a friday in Ingolstadt!!!! Maybe it was the same guy who designed the leaking boot, the special reservior on the rear spoiler with perfect geometry to tip it right into the boot on openning.....LOL

Good Luck,

David

[panzerwagen]

This is a well known problem in the States....

It first came to everybody's attention some years ago when 200 turbos and 100's were getting fires in their engine compartments and 7A engines in some CQ's were melting down. The USA Audi Club made lite of it and came out with a warning to it's membership. Apparently Audi USA had known about it too! They under the table had a fix in putting a fusible link into the ground circuit which is in their ETKAS for the 200 class cars. I had the problem when I first bought my CQ new and noticed that my fan was running erratic. I took a peek at the assembly & saw that my ground contact was burnt and the surrounding plastic was showing signs of high temp scorching. I found out from the Audi Club about the fix and put it in. I have never had a problem since.

[Josh-stateside]

It first came to everybody's attention some years ago when 200 turbos and 100's were getting fires in their engine compartments and 7A engines in some CQ's were melting down. The USA Audi Club made lite of it and came out with a warning to it's membership. Apparently Audi USA had known about it too! They under the table had a fix in putting a fusible link into the ground circuit which is in their ETKAS for the 200 class cars. I had the problem when I first bought my CQ new and noticed that my fan was running erratic. I took a peek at the assembly & saw that my ground contact was burnt and the surrounding plastic was showing signs of high temp scorching. I found out from the Audi Club about the fix and put it in. I have never had a problem since.

what exactly did you fix?
How did you go abouts doing it?

thanks
Josh

[panzerwagen]

The fix for your problem is simple....

Go to an Audi dealer and get the fusible link for the cooling fan of 5 cylinder Turbo 200's. Also replace the connector, it's probably heat scorched anyway so get a new one. It's pretty straight forward job Josh.

[Josh-stateside]

Go to an Audi dealer and get the fusible link for the cooling fan of 5 cylinder Turbo 200's. Also replace the connector, it's probably heat scorched anyway so get a new one. It's pretty straight forward job Josh.

Now I understand..

thanks
Josh

[91_S2]

the special reservior on the rear spoiler with perfect geometry to tip it right into the boot on openning

David

That is soooo true

[Stick Insect]

Maybe it was the same guy who designed the leaking boot, the special reservior on the rear spoiler with perfect geometry to tip it right into the boot on openning.....LOL

Good Luck,

David

David,
excuse #1 It doesn't rain in Ingolstadt
excuse #2 the town is full of steep hills and the water runs off

How could they test the coupe properly apart from take it to Accrington?

David

[audiman]

The USA is the only place for that sort of info. Freedom of information. God we need that over here

True about that spolier Makes everything at the edge of the boot wet!

[Josh-stateside]

The sport quattro fan is indeed 700 watts. It is the same as the one fitted to a audi 100 2.0 TD (82-91).

It is a 3 stage fan and has three relays to control it. Stage 1 and 2 are controlled by standard 30A relays (141 951 253 B) and the 3rd stage is controlled by a 50A relay (8D0 951 253).

The connector on the back is 3 pin (443 959 840)

You'll need to seriously uprate the wiring though. And watch out for it sucking things through the grille when it comes on to full power.

Ben

Hi ben

I could also wire in a beefy relay and wires before the stock wiring correct?

I'd probably install the sport quattro relays too. but I could buy two of those 50amp relays and put one infront of all the wiring correct? Run power lines to the allternator and a ground to the abs/brakes grounding point with a 80amp fuseable link.

Thanks
Josh

[Josh-stateside]

Could some one post the stock 3b and aby relays sizes and part #s for positions 3,6, and 11 in the aux relay panel under the hood.

Here's what I am thinking...

My coupe quattro 7a is normally a two stage fan. But I been going through all the wiring and such and I think it's only limited to 2 stages because of the relays and the fan motor?

My stock relays in postions 11 and 6 are 40amp relays part#s 443 951 253k

The sport quattro has a 50amp relay, but the s4s have a 70amp relay.

I think alot of this has to do with position 6 relay which is "radiator cooling fan high speed relay" (which is only a 40amp relay now) If I can put a higher amp relay in there I think it will allow a three stage fan to pull more juice from the power feed.

Just to protect everything though I most likely will put a relay infront of all the wiring and a fuseable link on the ground.

fan? I am not sure yet.. I might get another 3b fan:
165959455ae

Thanks
Josh

[PeterS]

Josh - as said, well known prob on the 7a - I experienced it in 1996 and did the writeup at 20v.org on the repair. Knowing that you are in the northeast US, I would submit a different approach to the fusable link - do what I did - take the 200q fusable link mount - attach it to where the cruise control mount near the firewall - but instead of a fusable link - go to NAPA and buy an 80 Amp fuse -it comes in a plastic case and has copper feet - the audi fusable links, though cheap, are prone to corrosion. I also cut off the connector at the fan, cut back about 12 inches of wire and spliced in three new, longer sections and used female spade connectors under the stock boot. two important points are 1. ensure that there is enough wire for strain relief (there was NOT enough on my car originally, the harness was too short and tight that I believe that part of the failure was due to mechanical and heat cycling of the wires and the connector - 2. is a fuse on the brown (gnd) lead. I _think_ that you could run the 200 fan, but you probably need a s2 shroud to do that.

HTH
-Peter

[Josh-stateside]

Josh - as said, well known prob on the 7a - I experienced it in 1996 and did the writeup at 20v.org on the repair. Knowing that you are in the northeast US, I would submit a different approach to the fusable link - do what I did - take the 200q fusable link mount - attach it to where the cruise control mount near the firewall - but instead of a fusable link - go to NAPA and buy an 80 Amp fuse -it comes in a plastic case and has copper feet - the audi fusable links, though cheap, are prone to corrosion. I also cut off the connector at the fan, cut back about 12 inches of wire and spliced in three new, longer sections and used female spade connectors under the stock boot. two important points are 1. ensure that there is enough wire for strain relief (there was NOT enough on my car originally, the harness was too short and tight that I believe that part of the failure was due to mechanical and heat cycling of the wires and the connector - 2. is a fuse on the brown (gnd) lead. I _think_ that you could run the 200 fan, but you probably need a s2 shroud to do that.

HTH
-Peter

Thanks for all the information guys..

Peter if you check it out.. some one did splice in longer wires.. but to fu#k thing up.. they did it ****ty? Or did I just blow the ground wire right off?

It's frustrating... I have fixed so many things on this car it's not even funny. Two steps forward, 20 steps back. But I am becoming very aware of everything to look for these days.

I am getting lost in potential options now too.

"learn to labor and to wait" Have to keep telling myself that.

Cheers
Josh

[Josh-stateside]

Forgot to mention

I know that chris said that the 200 fan motor is taller and longer. I need to check part #s but there is a 500 watt fan found on 5000s/200s and 100s? I think. I was thinking I could just put nylon or steel spacers and use longer bolts and push the fan closer to the radiator. there is about 3 inch of play in my opinion on the fan cowl.

I might take a trip to the junk yard get a bunch of fans and play around. The place I go to is soo cheap.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Cheers
Josh