Front Pulleys / Torsional Vibration Dampers

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  • driftin jo
    S2Forum Fiend
    • Sep 2007
    • 2222
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #16
    Originally posted by Matt_D
    Thank f&&k for a moment there i thought i ordered the wrong one!

    Oh and this is what £398+VAT of Audis finest looks like (i did'nt pay that)



    So if the front pulleys are a 2 part system then i take it the bottom pulleys themselves need to be balanced too otherwise the vibration damper might as well not be fitted ?
    I,m sure that all the parts Audi make are balanced to a good standard to start with,but if you read all the information in this thread ie the links at in the first post you will understand that the damper HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BALANCING, so suggesting that if it is not balanced you might as well not be fit it is just daft.
    Wile getting any of the parts in you engine balanced better than they are now is hallways a good thing for you engine, even if the hole bottom end was not assembly was very well balanced it would make no difference to the function of the damper, it is a torsional vibration damper.

    Comment

    • HPmuirt
      S2Forum April Fool
      • Apr 2005
      • 3014
      • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

      #17
      Originally posted by Matt_D
      So if the front pulleys are a 2 part system then i take it the bottom pulleys themselves need to be balanced too otherwise the vibration damper might as well not be fitted ?
      I may have got this wrong as I am not a mechanical engineer, but from my reading of the above posts and the links articles, the reason for fitting this damper has nothing to do with smoothing vibrations caused by an imbalance of the rotating parts (crank, FW etc) but only to relieve torsional (i.e. twisting) forces and vibrations generated in the crank itself.

      Calling it a vibration damper is really the problem here as everyone always assumes that the vibration is caused by a balancing issue so let's just call it a 'torsional damper' to keep reminding ourselves of its actual purpose.

      It therefore sounds to me that you can bolt up what you like in terms of flywheels and clutches etc and get it all balanced, just remember to bolt on your torsional damper as well

      Cheers n

      Si
      95 ABY S2 Coupe - Ragusa Green
      Subtle mods here and there


      2011 A5 3.0 TDi - Lava Grey
      With every option available (except a towball)

      Comment

      • driftin jo
        S2Forum Fiend
        • Sep 2007
        • 2222
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #18
        Si,
        You understand it perfectly and have it spot on .

        Comment

        • Rusty
          Super Moderator
          • Jun 2004
          • 18953
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #19
          Originally posted by Matt_D
          Oh and this is what £398+VAT of Audis finest looks like (i did'nt pay that)
          £398+VAT

          Do we know the differences between ABY and 3B pulleys? I know that the 3B item is lighter, just wondering what was different? I would make the logical assumption that it is best to keep the pulley with the correct crank based on the information above.

          Do we also have details on the 2 parts of the front pulley as there might be an option for weight reduction in the pulleys whilst retaining the the torsional damper...

          Final question, does anyone knnow if there is a max RPM on the TD?
          Cheers'en, AndyC
          1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

          Comment

          • Flat on my back
            S2Forum Fiend
            • Jan 2007
            • 2449
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #20
            .

            Main diffs are ABY is ribbed aux belts, 3B/7A is 'V' aux belts.

            HTH.
            Carlos.

            On the look out for less bits for my s2 saloon project. Now supporting myself by shooting for my food. www.airgunforum.co.uk

            Comment

            • mcandmar
              S2Forum Zealot
              • Apr 2004
              • 5118
              • Country: Ireland

              #21
              3B vs ABY pics here http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthr...ight=3b+pulley, only difference is the alt drive belt and less weight.
              91CQ20v - Gone to a new home
              93UR-S4 - The Magic Carpet
              94S2Bus - The Emerald Express

              Comment

              • Rusty
                Super Moderator
                • Jun 2004
                • 18953
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #22
                ABY one is a monster isn't it!!!
                Cheers'en, AndyC
                1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                Comment

                • Ross
                  S2Forum Possessed
                  • Aug 2005
                  • 3399
                  • Country: England

                  #23
                  My thoughts on this... read a little into Pulley's myself, and have read the links posted at the start of the thread. I'd go down the route of lightening the stock pulley if I wanted to lose some rotational weight, I'm sure there's a pic of someone who took about 1kg off it on the forum somewhere? And change out the alternator pulley.

                  That said, from the experiences of others with the I5 it would appear that the crank is strong enough to take any torsional stress given to it at stock power levels. I'd imagine if it's going to break, it would do so very quickly.

                  Each to their own I guess, these items look damn impressive and I'd be tempted to change the alternator but I'm sticking with my dampener! Excessive torsional oscillations in my shaft sounds painful anyone seen that vid of the bridge that shakes itself to pieces when it starts oscillating at its natural frequency??
                  AUDI - saving Dad's from minivans since 1994

                  Comment

                  • S2central.net
                    Retired OG Mod
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 16590
                    • Country: Northern Ireland

                    #24
                    Tacoma Narrows......

                    Paul Nugent
                    Webmaster http://S2central.net
                    Administrator http://S2forum.com

                    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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                    • Rusty
                      Super Moderator
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 18953
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #25
                      Tacoma Narrows, one of the first things you get in any vibration based education module
                      Cheers'en, AndyC
                      1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                      Comment

                      • Jamo
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 21750
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Andy_Casey
                        Tacoma Narrows, one of the first things you get in any vibration based education module
                        The first Tacoma Narrows Bridge opened to traffic on July 1, 1940. It collapsed four months later on November 7, 1940, at 11:00 AM (Pacific time) due to a physical phenomenon known as aeroelastic flutter caused by a 67 kilometres per hour (42 mph) wind. The bridge collapse had lasting effects on science and engineering. In many undergraduate physics texts the event is presented as an example of elementary forced resonance with the wind providing an external periodic frequency that matched the natural structural frequency (even though the real cause of the bridge's failure was aeroelastic flutter[1]). Its failure also boosted research in the field of bridge aerodynamics/aeroelastics which have themselves influenced the designs of all the world's great long-span bridges built since 1940
                        Does the S2 suffer aeroelastic flutter?

                        Comment

                        • Rusty
                          Super Moderator
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 18953
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Jamo
                          Does the S2 suffer aeroelastic flutter?
                          They do, ask Doug about his experiences on a French Autoroute
                          Cheers'en, AndyC
                          1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                          Comment

                          • Jamo
                            Retired OG Mod
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 21750
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Andy_Casey
                            They do, ask Doug about his experiences on a French Autoroute
                            haha haven't spoken to Doug in ages!!!

                            Comment

                            • saltinot
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • May 2004
                              • 1946

                              #29
                              Originally posted by HPmuirt
                              Calling it a vibration damper is really the problem here as everyone always assumes that the vibration is caused by a balancing issue so let's just call it a 'torsional damper' to keep reminding ourselves of its actual purpose.
                              The "shade tree" mechanics here in Georgia refer to them as the 'harmonic balancer' which I always thought was goofy, but it actually better defines them.

                              Comment

                              • driftin jo
                                S2Forum Fiend
                                • Sep 2007
                                • 2222
                                • Country: United Kingdom

                                #30
                                Originally posted by saltinot
                                The "shade tree" mechanics here in Georgia refer to them as the 'harmonic balancer' which I always thought was goofy, but it actually better defines them.
                                No it doesn't as they don't actually balance anything ! They absorb torsional vibrations of the cranks resonant frequencies. Hence the proper name “Torsional vibration damper”

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