Engine Building

**audiman** · 25 May 2004, 20:31

I have never used this stuff so i dont know. I would bolt the head on and then build it up on the car block. I would use a cam lube for the head gear, its a very thick oil that doesnt drip.

If i was you just use engine oil on the bores.

Before starting the engine disconnect the engine speed sensor and crank it over over until the oil pressure gauge goes up. Then re-connect and start up.

**Mark Halligan** · 25 May 2004, 20:45

Originally posted by audiman

Before starting the engine disconnect the engine speed sensor and crank it over over until the oil pressure gauge goes up. Then re-connect and start up.

Tom,
isnt it also a good idea to take the sparkplugs out when turning the engine over to get oil pressure up, as this will stop cylinder compression loading on the bearing surfaces too?

Mark.

**audiman** · 25 May 2004, 20:50

Yeah wouldnt be a bad idea. But crank it over for a good 10-20 seconds to make sure everything it covered in oil inc. turbo etc etc. Then before strting for real, top up the oil level, and put the plugs in! (they may help, if dougs will stay in)

**Doug_RS2** · 25 May 2004, 20:59

Originally posted by audiman

(they may help, if dougs will stay in)

They will this time.

I did this before - the oil pressure suddenly jumps up - and I turned it over for a while after just to be sure.

**S2central.net** · 26 May 2004, 08:25

Originally posted by Mark Halligan

Tom,
isnt it also a good idea to take the sparkplugs out when turning the engine over to get oil pressure up, as this will stop cylinder compression loading on the bearing surfaces too?

Mark.

Spot on sir - thats what I do first to get pressure up.

Then I'd do a quick cold compression test on each cylinder before trying to start it.

As for 'graphogen' - I've never used it, so I can't comment unfort on that...

**SteveH** · 26 May 2004, 08:55

Originally posted by Doug_RS2

I am after some advice on building up my engine.

I have some Graphogen, a colloidal graphite paste that I understand you are supposed to use on all moving parts - becasue oil will drain away pretty quickly - and this will save wear on things during startup.

Is it safe to use this on the hydraulic tappets? I don't know if this is likely to block the oil feed to them? I was oging to put the head on the block before I fit the followers and cams/etc as I don't want any oil coming out the head to contaminate the headgasket - but if it is safe to use the graphogen grease I can build the head up ready for the block.

I have also heard it is not a good idea to use graphogen on the cylinder bores - any comments?

I am after any advice or tips for doing this properly.

Thanks

Doug,

Graphogen will disolve in the engine oil by the time the motor is at working temp. It's only there for the initial startup. My advice is to use it on all moving components apart from the bores. I left it in the system for the first 100 miles or so, then changed the oil. You only need a very small amount as it's amazingly slippery stuff. That tube will last you for the next 30 years unless you plan on doing regular rebuilds!

**SteveH** · 26 May 2004, 09:01

[QUOTE=S2central.net]Then I'd do a quick cold compression test on each cylinder before trying to start it.
QUOTE]

A very important check to make! Get compression figures for each cylinder when you've built the engine, or soon after it's been run. Don't be shocked if they aren't what you expect at first

Check them again once the engine has done a 100 miles or so. At this piont your bores will be bedding in and the figure should have improved. Once your happy that the bedding in is done, get a final figure to keep as a reference for future troubleshooting (hopefully wont be needed).

**Stick Insect** · 26 May 2004, 20:18

Hi Doug, I agree with all that has been said so far. One thing is what engine oil will you be using for start up?

When I build high power 'A' series engine I always use a supermarket cheap oil for the first 100 miles. This will allow the rings to bed in quickly.

As you know a high quality oil especially synthetic oil will cut down friction greatly/ This will stop the rings bedding in and lead to oil loss, poor sealing and worst of all Boost loss!

I can't say what effect the Graphite addative will have on the lubricity of the oil.

I'm sure that you will be running on Synthetic in the long term. A couple of quick changes of synthetic oil will be required before it is fully migrated to Synthetic protection.

HTH

David

**~~Corey~~** · 26 May 2004, 20:53

Second the cheap oil for a short period, the important thing is to get the rings to bed in correctly, stay away from synthetic for at least 3k miles on a new engine.

I used cheap for the first 500 miles , then went to semi synthetic till 3k, now we are on Synta Gold.
The only issue for the cheap oil is turbo protection, the cheap oil won't protect, however you are not putting the turbo under any stress for the first 500 miles, ARE YOU???

New oil filters at every change.

**Doug_RS2** · 26 May 2004, 20:53

I was planning on using cheap oil to bed it in for 100 miles and then I will change the oil and filter but still use cheap oil for a few hundred miles - driving under load all the time but no turbo action - then I will put the fully synthetic in.

**Stick Insect** · 26 May 2004, 21:29

Originally posted by Doug_RS2

I was planning on using cheap oil to bed it in for 100 miles and then I will change the oil and filter but still use cheap oil for a few hundred miles - driving under load all the time but no turbo action - then I will put the fully synthetic in.

I read somewhere that when 'migrating' from normal oil to synthetic you must do another change soon after the first load of synthetic as the protection level is down when mixed/contaminated.

A friend of mine rebuilt his V12 E' Type engine and started the engine got it to temperature and then dumped the oil. They take 2 gallons of oil. He is a fantastic engineer. He now works as one of the track gearbox technicians for BAR. the oil was changed after 50 and 100 miles as well.

There is something called running in oil which is oil without the additives. This makes it Supermarket oil in my estimation.

Good luck with the build.

I have a big engine building rig if you want to borrow it even though I'm not very local.

David

**Mark Halligan** · 26 May 2004, 22:07

I am going to be need to be thinking about this soon too, so what make/grade of oil counts as a 'cheap' oil.
But also worth bearing (no pun intended) in mind is while you want a certain amount of friction and wear at the rings to bed them in, surely at the same time you would also want good protection during break in at other parts of the engine, cams, bearings etc?
I'm not sure what is meant by 'supermarket oil' but I dont think I would be too confident using a mega cheap and nasty oil in an engine that has cost me an alarmingly large amount of money to put together, even if only for the first 100 miles or so, as this is probably a time when a lot of wear would take place on key components if not adequately protected?
Whilst I like playing around with engines I dont want to be doing or paying for this little lot again in a hurry!
So what make do I use........good old Castrol GTX, or another one of the 'mid range' makes of cheaper oil. Any BTDT's?

Mark.

**audiman** · 26 May 2004, 22:11

Dont bother with running in oil. Just use a good quality multigrade oil, then after 500miles change oil and filter, then again at 1000 miles, then after that wait until at 2k, do another change and use the fully synthetic. Its best to avoid using this until the rings have had a chance to bed in.

Volvo had lots of warranty problems due to the factory using fully synthetic in engines a few years back

**audiman** · 26 May 2004, 22:12

Avoid cheap oils at all costs. They are ****e. Just a normal 15/40 multigrade oil made by a good manufacturer

Engine Building

Engine Building

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