Twincharged URS4

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  • Bambi
    S2Forum Buff
    • Oct 2005
    • 41
    • Country: South Africa

    #1

    Twincharged URS4

    Some of you might know that I've been talking of going the twin turbo route. The current 285kW (380Hp) at the wheels on 95 unleaded (untuned) is nice but the lag is terrible. So after much deliberation bewtween Martin and I, he finally convinced me to go twincharged, i.e Supercharger for the bottom end and turbo up top.

    I tracked down a mercedes C32 AMG charger and fitted that to my motor. Below is a pic.



    What you don't see on the pic is the mods that were required to get it to fit.

    1. Redesigned and manufatured engine mounting
    2. relocated power steering pipes
    3. relocated powersteering reservoir
    4. relocated water pipes
    5. relocated engine harnass
    6. relocated breathing system
    7. modified block
    8. modified sump
    9. relocated window washer bottle
    10. modified rib belt tensioner to cope with the added stresses

    I managed (just) to keep the fan standard.

    On the control side of things (not shown), the setup now has 2 separate air filters. One for the charger, and one for the turbo. Here it gets tricky (read: friggen messy) to sort out the switchover bewteen charger and turbo. It basically consistes of an extra N75 controlling one boost actuator to operate the bypass valve (a 72mm throttle body) when the switch happens. Getting it smooth is another issue. There is also a custom vacuum actuator that controls the waste function of the charger for cruising and idling bypass conditions. The boostpipes required for all this gets interesting at the connection point due to major space constraints.

    Here is my boost curve as now. Note that the turbo comes on line at 5000rpm. That is only part of the story. With the increased exhaust flow the turbo now spools at 3300rpm instead of 4700rpm. The problem is the compressor map of the turbo. Trying to boost moere than 1.6bar before 5000rpm leads to major compressor surge, which will destroy the turbo. It does however mean that I can now go to a .91 AR instead of the current small .64AR as lafg is not an issue anymore.....




    The boost responce on the car is now unreal. In any gear at ANY revs there is immediate torque, and plenty, and I havent even set the pulley ratios on the charger to max yet. There is about another 26% in there......

    I'l post dyno curves as soon as I've done one.
    1993 URS4 530hp Twincharged
    2002 S8
  • merlin's S4
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Jan 2005
    • 1539
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    WOW!! More pics please!
    '93 S4 Avant now back on the road complete with new shiny go faster bits.

    Comment

    • Error404
      Super Moderator
      • Mar 2007
      • 19789
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      That is a mighty undertaking - i salute you Sir.
      Getting it smooth is probably the biggest problem with the concept by all accounts.
      So you are running a parallel charging set-up not a sequential one?

      One question for you - isn't the charger a major drain of engine power once its boosting off the turbo?

      IIRC the Delta S4 used a clutch mechanism on the charger to disengage once the switch over had happended to stop the charger causing massive parasitic losses to the output. I think this is how VAG have designed the modern twin charged set-up too

      Great work
      Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
      Indigo ABY coupé
      Imola B6 S4 Avant

      Comment

      • Rusty
        Super Moderator
        • Jun 2004
        • 18953
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        Great work

        Originally posted by Error404
        One question for you - isn't the charger a major drain of engine power once its boosting off the turbo?
        Not if the cahrder has no pressure difference accross the compressor and thus it does very little work.
        Cheers'en, AndyC
        1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

        Comment

        • Bambi
          S2Forum Buff
          • Oct 2005
          • 41
          • Country: South Africa

          #5
          not sure what the drain is yet. the problem with switching out the charger is that the belt stresses are enormous to re engae at high rpm. will post results when dyno is done.
          1993 URS4 530hp Twincharged
          2002 S8

          Comment

          • Bambi
            S2Forum Buff
            • Oct 2005
            • 41
            • Country: South Africa

            #6
            Yes, at high rpm when the turbo spools witout the bypass switched in, the turbo sucks 0.5bar vacumm on the charger outlet. So basically the charger gives only some of the air supply to the turbo, and the rest comes from the bypass.
            1993 URS4 530hp Twincharged
            2002 S8

            Comment

            • Bram
              S2Forum Fiend
              • Aug 2006
              • 2582
              • Country: Netherlands

              #7
              Interesting project you have here. What turbo are you running next to the charger?

              Comment

              • Acidburn
                S2Forum Obsessed
                • Jun 2007
                • 13459
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                Any updates?

                Comment

                • Jamo
                  Retired OG Mod
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 21750
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #9
                  Any updates?

                  Comment

                  • Dan
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Jun 2008
                    • 1242
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Anyone ever hear any more about this?
                    1993 ABY Coupe | BMW R1200 GS
                    A6 3.0 TDI Quattro (aka Sonic's 'ring support/cargo vehicle )

                    Comment

                    • Jamo
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 21750
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      anyone ever hear anymore on this? last time he popped up was here http://www.vemssupport.com/forum/ind...ic,1424.0.html

                      Comment

                      • fundahl
                        S2Forum Buff
                        • Nov 2013
                        • 44
                        • Country: United States

                        #12
                        Very interesting setup!

                        Comment

                        • Sonic
                          Administrator
                          • Jul 2006
                          • 5514
                          • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

                          #13
                          Absolutely brilliant...

                          Shame there isn't a follow up, i can only presume the OP died in an epic supercharged/turbo charged ball of fire.
                          S2Forum.com Administrator

                          Comment

                          • Error404
                            Super Moderator
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 19789
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            More likely the enormity of trying to make it transition smoothly was all too real.
                            It took VAG with their nigh on bottomless resources years to develop their twin-charge engine for production and its still got loads of problems with it!
                            Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
                            Indigo ABY coupé
                            Imola B6 S4 Avant

                            Comment

                            • Jamo
                              Retired OG Mod
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 21750
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #15
                              The car was running for 3 years without issue last time I spoke to the user.....
                              Think there was refinement work to do or he got bored, who knows

                              Comment

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